Tim in Scotland wrote:

So Pete, despite what some tuners will tell us, there really isn't such a thing as an "invisible" / unfindable remap, also if I understand your post correctly, by doing a BDM remap you are actually throwing away the car's warranty because the remap requires "unauthorised" opening of the ECU?

This is absloutly correct m8 ,this is why when im asked EVEN THO i sell tuning and remapping,
I give the truth about it because simply by using the dealer tool it can be traced using the tool correctly.

Here is a few examples , and a simple ones at that.

1st way , measure boost presure, if its not standard its tuned.
1nd way , log injector duration , if its not standard its tuned.
3rd way , measure requested fuel in Mg's , if its not standard its tuned.
ALL OF THESE SIMPLE TESTS CAN BE DONE WITH THE MAIN DEALER TOOL.

The list goes on re the tests that can be made.

Regarding the BDM , this is in my opinion the fastest way to void your warranty you may as well put it in the bin as soon as its done.
Please see picture , i hope you understand.

Click image to enlarge

PS i chalange any tuner to prove different about traceability/invisibility

Just to add , when the ecu is powerd on the bench it will also give many intermittant faults codes, this is because the ecu is powerd and its not connected to the rest of its components like , temp sensors etc etc

so even IF it were untracable that the lid had been removed it would still have numerious intermittant fault codes from when it was powers with the rest of its sensors not connected on the bench

Ultimately after any remap or tuning work at least the fault codes should be read and cleared if any present, this will help the dealer be less suspicious when logging into your car at service time.

Very interesting Pete and many thanks for shedding some light on this dark subject. So anybody looking at buying a 2nd hand car now has to check the sealant on the ECU and if it isn't in tact then walk away.
I believe Land Rover do not approve of any of the remaps that are available - even those that their franchised dealers might persuade you to have............................... 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

bellautos wrote:

Most of the good modern and upto date tuning companys can remap you car by OBD no problems.

I can give you the reason as to why the dealers knew it was tuned,
The reason is,
When the OBD tool reads the ecu , it needs to read the extrenal eprom that contains the mapping info.
To do this it reads the info through the processer, using the processer as a translator.

How it works is,(imagine the processer as a comunications engine), as soon as the key is on , the engine is running.

The OBD tool connects to the processer and stops its running state but leaving it alive as such.
It then asks the processer to read out the info from the eprom and direct it down the CAN comunication lines back to the OBD socket.

Now we have the read

BUT

After it has sent all its info, it needs to RESTART the processer/engine so your car will run.

All these processes leave traces inside the ecu in the form of various fault codes, these fault codes are NOT able to be replicated with a genuine fault, ONLY if the processer is stoped and restarted.

The dealers know about these codes so they know your car has had a OBD tool connected.
They could remove the faults and leave the tuning as is , BUT they wont as you have found.


You need to ask your tuner IF they have a tool called IDS, which is the dealer tool.
Tell them , Log into your car , read and chq faults, tune your car, read and remove faults BUT leaving the tuning there.

Well spotted

Now who should we believe??

Ok, How about my situation then!

Car bought absolutely Brand New from Dealer and was Re-mapped by them before I'd even seen it!
As far as I'm concerned my car was bought through an official LR Dealer - anything they have done
to the car prior to selling it to me as a Brand New Unregistered Vehicle is not my fault and therfore
LR MUST honour any warranty. I don't think they'd have a leg to stand on in court if they didn't! 2013 Discovery HSE Luxury - 3.0 SDV6 - Santorini Black
2013 Evoque 5 Door Pure Tech SD4 - Orkney Grey with Panoramic Roof (Mrs E's new baby)

GONE - RRS - 3.0 TDV6 HSE - Santorini (2010)
GONE - RRS - 2.7 TDV6 HSE - Java Black (2007)
GONE - Porsche Boxster S - 3.2 - Black

I think'll you find that the dealer will have breached LR's terms of sale and they (LR) WILL NOT have to honour the warranty.

Did you get a signed letter from the dealer stating they would honour the warranty because ultimately (in your case) it would be the dealer who installed the upgrade that would have to 'foot the bill' for any items that LR refused to repair under their standard vehicle warranty!

Did you have an order sheet showing a performance upgrade when you ordered your car?


Worst case scenario is engine failure and LR tell you to 'get lost' and you spend the next 6 months arguing with your dealer to replace the engine.....by all means you could take them to court....but it would a slow and painful process and you'd be without a car the whole time!

Just met my friend who works at Stratstone in London and they have stopped doing 'in house' upgrades as they were getting sh*t from LR....so now they refer any such requests to an outside contractor and the customer deals direct


"All that glistens isnt gold"

rrsjo wrote:

All of this makes sense BUT then I go and read this on your own website:

"The performance remap or serial download we have produced for this Ford powered Landrover defender 2 , 2.4 common rail diesel engine is undetectable to the main dealer tools."

How come?

YUP you read correct and its not a mistake either.

I have the dealer IDS tool and have made extensive tests with it while developing the tuning for the new defender.
Its logging functions on the new defender are somewhat limited to say the least.


In the tuning of the new defender there is NO boost alterd to gain its power "so it cant be moniterd with the IDS"

It leaves no fault codes with the tuning method i use , andeven if it did i would errase after tuning.

And function of logging the injector duration is not present in the IDS for the new defender either ,

so all i say on my site is correct at the time of print.

Regards pete

I been into to see the service manager at our LR dealer in Bedford they comfirm to me any comunications via the obd ports is logged on to part of the ecu which shows up in a counter showing how many times the ecu has beed accessed.

He used to have a tuning box on his own TDV6 then changed to a remap which was carried out by a local comapny using the bdm method he has comfirmed to us that there LR dealer tools cannot see the remap software and there is not counters or logs left on the ecu if the correct information is on the ecu. In fact the bdm method is the way the ecu makes test and set the ecu up the bdm uses the serives points inside the ecu. He has given me a contact for a local tuning company who say they will BDM remap my TDV8 for free until is goes for its next service if it come back still remapped I pay them if not they will update again for free.
got nothing to lose. They do not carry out random tests to try to find the remap but if they drivre the car and feel the added performance they will not wipe it off or do software updates without consulting the owner first.

I will keep you informed regarding the next remap via bdm I cannot be 100% until the next service but as soon as I know if the bdm is better I will be posting back here.

BDM system sounds interesting but how do you hide the fact that the ecu has to be opened??

ginger wrote:

BDM system sounds interesting but how do you hide the fact that the ecu has to be opened??

@lummygee

The newer IDS diagnostic tool dont give flash history , this was only on the older T4 system and this dont support the TDV6 and TDV8's so your all safe

MMMM this is getting tricky now, I just feel now that LR are aware of the amount of ECU mods, whether done by LR dealers or not, they will be looking for these changes in a bid not to honour any repair claims. Think i will leave mine just the way she is..........for now at least. Speed Limits! not where I live!

Back in a D3

Did have: RRS TDV8 2008.5MY
Did have: Q7 3.0TDi S-Line/Tech/Comms pack
Did Have: Disco3 HSE

Steve I'm with you - once my warranty expires I might get a remap. 2005 Zambezi TDV6 - Gone but not forgotten
2009 Alaska TDV8 - Gone and much missed.



WINNER - 2009 �Idler Of The Year� Award
Runner Up - 2009 �Just Doing What It�s Designed To Do� Award


DO NOT CLICK HERE!

Apparently LR have had several major component failure warranty claims and the common link to all these cars is that they were all 'chipped'

I also understand that the biggest claim for engine and gearbox failure was at Stratstones with a Turbochip installed 'in house'

I think I'll buy a bike