I will just drop it here.


 Regards etc.,

Wojtek

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WAS: 2006 RRS Supercharged
IS: 2010 RRS TDV8 HSE

I'll be voting to Leave, and in fact I don't know anyone at all that'll be voting to stay. In fact there's a Polish couple with kids at my children's school and even they won't the UK to leave now they've got British citizenship!

Around South Yorkshire the sheer capacity of economic migrants has contributed greatly to the compression of wages; it's very easy to undercut the wages of the indigenous when you're living ten to a house and paying £50 a week on rent. Not that I blame them for coming, it's the old saying "don't blame the player, blame the game".

The big problem for the Remain camp is that the harder they push people into a corner with their World War III scare stories the more likely they are to just go the complete opposite direction.

RRSTDV8 wrote:

Johnski wrote:

We didn't fight two wars just to hand over Britain to Germany and Co,

It makes my blood boil to see this crap trotted out.

So what?
Last time I checked the UK was ruled by former German nationals since 1917, did anything change? Regards etc.,

Wojtek

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WAS: 2006 RRS Supercharged
IS: 2010 RRS TDV8 HSE

Guys, let's tread very carefully here.

Now, I'm a firm believer that openness is the best way to approach the most sensitive arguments, not hushing them up and making them all taboo. I think the WW2 point I think is actually a very valid comment, depending on how it is interpreted, so in the hope that it will reduce the likelyhood of upset, here's my interpretation:

WW2 was very much a fight against fascism, against dogma - to me, it demonstrates the idea that the way to get on with each other and keep peace it to be accepting of others opinions and let each other be, not demand everyone feels/does/thinks the same. That sentiment is a very important factor for me, and I find the EU to be contrary to that ideal. I don't think we should be made to agree with each other to get on, and I think that is exactly why WW2 was fought. It has nothing to do with any country or persons, but the meaning of the war, and in that sense, I think it is a point that we should not shy away from, or hastily draw conclusions about.

Whether by war or by peaceful means, I believe that demanding agreement between any parties in order to be friends is wrong, and I am proud to say that that is one of the many reasons I have voted to leave.

 Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver


Last edited by Lost for Words on Tue Jun 14 2016 9:10am. Edited 1 time in total

World War 2 was fought in part because the allied powers messed up the peace deal after World War 1. The Treaty of Versailles and the subsequent London Schedule of Payments left Germany penniless basically. This was in some part an act of revenge by the French, aided by the good old United Kingdom. The conditions for the rise of fascism in Germany in the 1930s were created in 1919 by us. They were then nurtured by the Depression and collapse of the German economy. Hyperinflation meant that people needed wheelbarrows to carry enough money to buy basic food. It all led to the rise of fascism.

One of the common themes in the rise of fascism is the placing blame for a country's ills at the feet of "people not like us", usually immigrants and minorities, the powerless. The rise to power is aided by the bigotry of the masses. This bigotry is fed by those seeking to create a consensus of hatred against "people not like us". It is easy to see in the media and in the interviews, both with the politicians and those that have taken the bait.

This whole sorry episode will not end well for anyone other than the elite few who are insulated from the consequences by their wealth.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

I totally agree, and I believe that forms an argument to leave, not remain. As you say, the rise of fascism was in no small part our own doing by placing restrictions on others. Again, the situation the EU puts us in as regards immigration, is only going to increase bigotry and resentment.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

As this was meant to be a poll- already voted OUT via postal, and still stand by that decision, especially after all the alarmist crap that's been thrown around... by both sides!

The way I look at it is this,

If we were not part of The EU at the moment and we had a vote to join, I wonder how many would say Yes !!!!

Lost for Words wrote:

The situation the EU puts us in as regards immigration, is only going to increase bigotry and resentment.

TheWojtek wrote:

So what?
Last time I checked the UK was ruled by former German nationals since 1917, did anything change?

Lyonhead wrote:

The way I look at it is this,

If we were not part of The EU at the moment and we had a vote to join, I wonder how many would say Yes !!!!

TheWojtek wrote:

Lost for Words wrote:

The situation the EU puts us in as regards immigration, is only going to increase bigotry and resentment.

Over 3 million UK citizens are immigrants to the EU countries, it's gonna be tough to sell all these Spanish houses and move back to the UK.

No, it's not, because that is not going to happen. If we leave, all the existing (legal) migrants will remain entitled to stay where they are under the Vienna Convention.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

And with regard to all the UK expats with property in the EU, with the favourite locations for them to settle having recently had economic meltdowns the last thing that those governments want is to have another property market meltdown and even higher unemployment. I am very thankful for the employment rules in the EU, if they didn't exist I would not have been able to sail as the Master of a German Flag ship due to Germany ignoring the "freedom of movement" rules and insisting that seafarers working on German flagged ships having to speak fluent German. The day I sat my German licence exams (ironically all set in English!) the German Govt was overruled by the EU and I went to work on German flag ships not speaking very much German. After 10 years working for a Hamburg based shipping line, having my German Social Security payments made for me I am now entitled to my German state pension and health insurance, both of which a way more generous than the UK's and the pension for seaman is 85% of my final salary....... Unlike my UK pensions which will not even keep me in a 2nd hand Dacia Duster every 3 years let alone a used RRS.
Leave the EU, you must be joking, I would prefer to emigrate to Europe to get my entitlement in retirement rather than loose it which I have been told I would if UK votes to leave! I also work for a Danish shipowner now through their Copenhagen offices and will get a pension and social security from the Danes as well......... Might be able to afford a used SVR on that pension............. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

I see that David Cameron has ditched his strong and widely publicised views of 2004/5 when he was vehemently opposed to the EU.

Perhaps because then he wanted a key job in UK politics now he wants a key job in the EU.