I appreciate your point and it is a valid one, rest assured I have shall we say direct experience of vehicles worth in excess of £150,000

If you feel that my posts don't count or my information / point of view is invalid due to my unwillingness to commit further personal information then that is a decision best made by your self, and I would respect that.

If however you take my posts at face value and feel free to check out my explanation of ARC then I am sure I can be of some value.

regards

the voice of reason

I am sure that your posts both past and future will be welcomed by myself and other members


Regards ASH555

The Voice Of Reason

As someone trying to decide whether to go ahead and spend £50000 + of my cash on a RRS TDV8, can I just say thank you for taking the trouble to offer your inside experience and advice regarding LR and the RRS product.

All this talk about knocking noises, and comments from new owners about being fobbed off by their dealer, had just about persuaded me to spend my money elsewhere!

Can I just ask if you have personally experienced the 'knocking' as described and therefore confirming you are in the position to categorically state that, in your opinion, the sound is definately only the noise of the hydraulic fluid pulsing?

mine has no knocking noises http://www.jkavonline.co.uk - 15% discount to rrsport.co.uk members (Discount Code: rrsport)

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I run an engineering company and would not dream of fobbing off my customers with an excuse such as a knocking noise being a design feature. I know what sort of resonse I would receive.

LR customer service said the Principal of the dealership would contact me to discuss the issue further. Guess what - no response.

The voice of someone who has just parted with £47000 for a car that makes "water knock" sounds.

A few points.

1. Why is this noise not on all rrs with dynamic response? Am I presuming then that all RRS with DR not making this noise has a fault?

2. Why is it that all of the RRS's I've ever been in other than my own don't make this sound?

3. If I knew that my car was going to make this noise I WOULD NEVER OF BOUGHT THE THING - it's not a even the slightest bit less annoying now that I have read your words it just makes me wonder why a car manufacturer would fit such a system knowing that this noise would drive people mad.

4. If it HAS to be there LR sound give customers the option of REMOVAL, as I'd sooner be without DR than have this noise.

5. I bought the RRS after a FFRR because the ride was better and the engine quieter - a £47 car sound not make this noise - LR should have sorted this out long before it was ever fitted to a road car.

6. Why oh why did the ARC not make this noise on my old TD5 ES? They handled very well WITHOUT THIS NOISE.

7. I will never get used to this noise.

8. If a manufacturer brought out a super fridge that makes your food last twice as long for 3x the price of a normal fridge people would buy it. If 3 weeks later the same fridge stated to make a sound like "water knock" when it was being used it would be returned and the customer would get his money back. You see everyone expect a fridge to make a little noise BUT NOT A "WATER KNOCK" - even if the manufacturer said it was normal it is NOT an acceptable noise to most people.

9. If a manufacturer brought out a super plasma TV that makes picture seem 3D and people are realistic and walking around your lounge etc (i.e. very realistic) people would buy it. If 3 weeks later the same plasma stated to make a sound like "water knock" when it was being used it would be returned and the customer would get his money back. You see everyone expect plasma to make a little noise BUT NOT A "WATER KNOCK" - even if the manufacturer said it was normal it is NOT an acceptable noise to most people.

10. The same applies to our cars. We all expect the engine etc to make a noise etc but not like this. If my central heating or water pipes made anoise like this I would get a plummer out to STOP IT!

Hope this helps.

Now you to have been enlightened as to our side. BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5



Last edited by The doc on Tue Dec 12 2006 11:28pm. Edited 2 times in total

Kaine wrote:

mine has no knocking noises

The doc wrote:

9. If a manufacturer brought out a super plasma TV that makes picture seem 3d and people are realistic and waling around your lounge etc (i.e. very realistic) people would buy it. If 3 weeks later the same fridge stated to make a sound like "water knock" when it was being used it would be returned and the customer would get his money back. You see everyone expect plasma to make a little noise BUT NOT A "WATER KNOCK" - even if the manufacturer said it was normal it is NOT an acceptable noise to most people.

The doc wrote:

Kaine wrote:

mine has no knocking noises

It must be broken...

ILMAO

how do I break mine???? BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5



Last edited by The doc on Tue Dec 12 2006 11:46pm. Edited 2 times in total

Come on VOR all we need to know is:

1. Do you drive a RRS and is it your own, main car? - (If no goto point 5 please)

2. Does yours make this special noise that helps you know that all is OK?

3. Did you pay for your RRS?

4. Do you like this noise and do people who ride in your vehicle not pass comment on it?

5. If we treat this noise as "normal" how do we know when something is amiss?

6. Please buy one with your own money than come back and tell us just how great it is to know that the system is working because it makes "water knock"

I am seriously very pleased with your explanation of the above fault / noise but that does not alter the fact that this is a bloody terrible noise and far exceeds any "normal" noise that a vehicle suspension should make.

I am sure that I am not the only one here with a MULTIPLE DEFECT VEHICLE(in case you have not guessed this is not the only problem with this product) But at the end of the day there is only one defect that my car has that really gets on my wick and thats this "water knock" so how are we going to find a way of making is quieter?

I love my car and don't want it to go BUT I just can't live with this noise... BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5



Last edited by The doc on Tue Dec 12 2006 11:51pm. Edited 1 time in total

P.S. My car only started making this noise / feeling throught the wheel after the thing lowered itself to access height at 70 MPH due to a faulty suspension level sensor on the N/S/F. BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

1. yes i have experienced this noise
2. yes I agree that without proper explanation, learned experience tell'ls us it is not right
3. I have experienced the noise to different levels on no less than 5 different RRS, As any decent hydraulics engineer will tell you fluid resonance will be altered by such things as ambient temperature and very minute component tolerences, thus this system has a varied noise output from vehicle to vehicle.

finally might I point out that to my knowledge at least the amount paid for a car can not alter the basic laws of physics.

Based on some of your logic I could make a fortune from using 20 year old technology to create extremely reliable but very basic ( are you sure you want a CD player?) cars and charge you a premium. yes your right the world does not work like this.

Are you wrong to want it all, not really I say, but do refer to my first post, MAC / DOC TBH sounds like price was a big factor for you guys and I get the feeling reading between the lines that you should both have opted for the Range Rover rather than sport as ride comfort / cabin noise seems to be your biggest consideration.

LR most probably have made a mistake, in hindsight they should have told dealers (and hence customers) about the noise at the beginning. My bet is most people here would still have purchased or moved up to a RR model


None the less the only thing that makes this noise unreasonable is your own expectation, you have paid a premium to be at the forefront of modern technology, with this comes the need to adapt to what is considered normal.

The Voice of Reason


PS
Mac how long have you been waiting for the DP to answer, in my experience DP's spend a lot of the time away from the dealership, I would allow at least 5-7 days before getting fed up, after all thats what they have service and sales manager's for. (because they are not always immediately available)

Doc
having read some of your other posts I would advise you get the car rechecked as there does seem to be some confusion on your part as to what noise you are hearing, you may be suffering from the steering shaft issue or require the DSC software update

wow, things on here are hotting up!! YEE HAAR!! can't let this one go by without wading in!

how long have we disgruntled owners been waiting for some senior engineer from LR to get on here and tell us how it really is (Voice of Reason - welcome!!!).

Thankyou for your frank explanation of the problems we are encountering(I can call you 'Frank', can't I?!).

Frank - can you give us a proper reason why some cars have this problem, and some don't? if it's the design of the amazing two-piece ARB then why don't all RRSs do it?

Frank - can you please put out a technical bulletin to the LR Customer Services people and the dealer network to explain exactly what you told us, and stop them fobbing us off with their "representative" b*llsh*t?

Frank - I'm sorry but I don't accept that cars 10 years ago which DIDN'T make a knocking noise when you go over a bump are inferior in day-to-day driving to those which drive you round the bend with this tap-tap-tap-tappedy-tap-tappedy-tap-tap-tap.. even my Granny (Lord rest her soul) would have moaned about this on the way to the airport. You get my drift?

Frank - in fact I DID have a car 10 years ago which did this (and it was bloody fantastic to drive).. a '95 Integrale which made exactly the same noise every 30,000 miles or so. It had a rose-jointed droplink on each end of the ARB, and they wore out so had to be replaced to stop the noise transmission. Cost about £70 each for the links. Surely can't some smart engineer come up with a better joint for your mega-whizz-bang hydraulics which doesn't transmit noise through the rest of the car? I know you're all smart people over there! come on it's Xmas - show us you care.

That's all for now, but I will be back.

Nod RRS Supercharged
Java/ Ivory

'94 F355, '90 M3 Evo, '95 Integrale Evo, '97 Cooper S Works, '84 911 Cab, '89 911 Speedster, '85 6R4, '59 Routemaster and something sensible for the Mrs

oh, and has anyone noticed that our new friend's initials are curiously the same as those used by a dealer who has a car stranded up on a ramp with a serious warranty problem?? "Vehicle Off Road"

Hilarious. RRS Supercharged
Java/ Ivory

'94 F355, '90 M3 Evo, '95 Integrale Evo, '97 Cooper S Works, '84 911 Cab, '89 911 Speedster, '85 6R4, '59 Routemaster and something sensible for the Mrs