Hmm... not going very well lately is it? 

Mac, how long have you had your car m8? BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

DOC - I have had the car since early October and the suspension noise was one of a number of issues reported within the first two weeks.

FFS  BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

I'll keep you posted  BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

Don't want to rock the boat here......but......

Firstly we have to ask why we bought a sport? if it was for the ride comfort, ultimate luxury, low cabin noise etc then sorry guys you bought the wrong model (should of spent the extra on a Range Rover)?

If however you are willing to sacrifice some of the above for, pure grunt, and excellent handling, packaged with aggressive looks then you chose right and the sport is for you.

A few facts

1. all cars make all sorts of noises, some cars are better than others at masking that noise from cabin occupants, but regardless they still make the noises

2. nobody can fix a fault that is not a fault

3. that knocking noise you ask? you mean you don't hear a similar noise on your BMW/AUDI, well hell thats because they play safe using outdated technology whilst My RRS is cutting edge (admittedly sometimes bleeding edge) but hey thats part of the Land Rover charm/ owner experience!


ARC or Active Roll Control is a major innovation in road safety devices and handling technology, no longer must we make do with suspension that is balanced between handling and comfort, now we can have both. a dynamic system that is constantly changing according to driver demand and road conditions. a system that can flick at a milliseconds notice from soft comfort to "no ! I wont let you roll this car mode", allows Granny to ride in comfort in the back on the way to the airport and then allows the driver some real fun on the way back home.

the cost, being a minor hydraulic fluid knock, a simple rule of basic physics, providing driver reassurance that the system is working to it's full potential.

or
I could stick to my boring old technology, run of the mill BMW/AUDI ?????


the technical bit..

ARC is effectively 2 halves of an anti roll bar joined in the middle by a hydraulic coupling which on demand from the Dynamic response module can immediately alter the torsion provided within the roll bar.
The module uses various sensors to determine road conditions, steering angles and roll angles combined with driver inputs along with a complex algorithm to alter the torsion through the bar by forcing more fluid in or out of the coupling, this means that fluid is force ably changing direction of flow sometimes multiple times within split seconds. Simple physics means that a water hammer or hydraulic knock is created,now should the unit not be attached to anything in space this noise would not be detectable however when attached to a vehicle it is audible. what you are hearing is not any play in any component more a resonance of noise created by the hydraulic movement within the system.

The answer (the only possible answer) have a far slower reacting solely electrical system which will with current motor technology be unable to provide the responses required, or go backwards to a non active system, sacrificing the additional safety and handling benefits this clever system provides.


In short Cars now make all sorts of noises that cars 10 years ago did not make, the problem here is that learned experience is convincing you this sound is abnormal and potentially dangerous, once you can get your head around this then you will appreciate that it's just another noise associated with the correct operation of the car just as musch as the exhaust note is.

Here endeth the lesson.

Regards

The voice of Reason.............

the voice of reason wrote:

the technical bit..

ARC is effectively 2 halves of an anti roll bar joined in the middle by a hydraulic coupling which on demand from the Dynamic response module can immediately alter the torsion provided within the roll bar.
The module uses various sensors to determine road conditions, steering angles and roll angles combined with driver inputs along with a complex algorithm to alter the torsion through the bar by forcing more fluid in or out of the coupling, this means that fluid is force ably changing direction of flow sometimes multiple times within split seconds. Simple physics means that a water hammer or hydraulic knock is created,now should the unit not be attached to anything in space this noise would not be detectable however when attached to a vehicle it is audible. what you are hearing is not any play in any component more a resonance of noise created by the hydraulic movement within the system.

The answer (the only possible answer) have a far slower reacting solely electrical system which will with current motor technology be unable to provide the responses required, or go backwards to a non active system, sacrificing the additional safety and handling benefits this clever system provides.


In short Cars now make all sorts of noises that cars 10 years ago did not make, the problem here is that learned experience is convincing you this sound is abnormal and potentially dangerous, once you can get your head around this then you will appreciate that it's just another noise associated with the correct operation of the car just as musch as the exhaust note is.

Here endeth the lesson.

Regards

The voice of Reason.............

Kaine wrote:

the voice of reason wrote:

the technical bit..

ARC is effectively 2 halves of an anti roll bar joined in the middle by a hydraulic coupling which on demand from the Dynamic response module can immediately alter the torsion provided within the roll bar.
The module uses various sensors to determine road conditions, steering angles and roll angles combined with driver inputs along with a complex algorithm to alter the torsion through the bar by forcing more fluid in or out of the coupling, this means that fluid is force ably changing direction of flow sometimes multiple times within split seconds. Simple physics means that a water hammer or hydraulic knock is created,now should the unit not be attached to anything in space this noise would not be detectable however when attached to a vehicle it is audible. what you are hearing is not any play in any component more a resonance of noise created by the hydraulic movement within the system.

The answer (the only possible answer) have a far slower reacting solely electrical system which will with current motor technology be unable to provide the responses required, or go backwards to a non active system, sacrificing the additional safety and handling benefits this clever system provides.


In short Cars now make all sorts of noises that cars 10 years ago did not make, the problem here is that learned experience is convincing you this sound is abnormal and potentially dangerous, once you can get your head around this then you will appreciate that it's just another noise associated with the correct operation of the car just as musch as the exhaust note is.

Here endeth the lesson.

Regards

The voice of Reason.............

very good post, however you may be missing one key point - why dont the dealers and LR give this explaination?

Kaine wrote:

very good post, however you may be missing one key point - why dont the dealers and LR give this explaination?

[quote="the voice of reason"]

Kaine wrote:

again another piece of advice. it is as much your responsibility to alter your Customer / dealer relationship as it is the dealers, talk to your dealer gain his trust, for matters technical forget the salesman, forget the service manager head straight for the service advisor or workshop foreman, build trust, get to know them and the relationship will be more fruit full.

Welcome 'The Voice'
Can i ask what car/cars you own

You can ask...

I have owned many makes/models of cars over my life time, many have been privately owned, many have been company cars, some have been from high output manufactures whilst in later life some have been more prestige.

I currently have vast experience dealing Land Rover ( both driving and from a technical aspect) whilst my earlier links have been with Jaguar, Ford and vauxhall


regards

international man of mystery

What car do you drive now?

you may of found my post a little vague, sorry about that, due to the frankness of my answers both currently and in the future, My input may not be completely liked by LR or the LR dealer network, whom I can say as fact do frequent these boards in order to gain current customer feedback.

Please respect that whilst I will do my best to provide honest information I am also required to protect my own position.

Hence no personal information what so ever

I understand your wish for amininity, the reason behind the question was to understand the types of vehicle you have bought personally and of what value' if you drove a an old banger for arguments sake you would expect faults but spend 50K would you expect more?