VOR - Obviously the more you pay for a vehicle the greater the expectations. My concern is not ride comfort or normal cabin noise. My concern is abnormal banging noise which causes comment from others in the vehicle and detracts from the driving pleasure.

Whilst I fully understand the explanations given it is not acceptable.

My dealer was not even aware of the problem until I complained about it, he had not come across it on any other vehicle. How can he know what is acceptable or not on a sample of one?

Regarding the DP I wait in anticipation.

Thank you.

My car is being re-checked on Monday.

The big problem here is this:

"this system has a varied noise output from vehicle to vehicle"

Given this further information and given that the noise that your refering to could be say 3 out of 10 on one car and my noise could be say 10 out of 10 how are L R going to sort out defining whats acceptable and whats not - presuming that I can't get along with this inovative feature.

PLUS there is a history of problems with Land rovers in my case.

I swore I'd never buy another.

Then land rover sent me on a cracking day out at gaydon with the HST - so impressed was I with the vehicles handling, smoothness and quietness that I decided to give LR another chance and set about buying an RR sport.

If you would like to know about all the problems I have had with DEFENDER, RANGE ROVER and DISCO 3 over the last 3 years please ASK and I will fill you in. I have had a 1 year break in various VW's and have not been back to the dealer with any seroius problems of any nature.

To say "you bought the cheap one so you should have expected it not to be quiet" is a crock. My FFRR Vogue TD6 had a very loud powerplant, not so smoth suspension and a slow, outdated gearbox, problems with wind noise along with many many electrical problems culminating in near total shut down one day ie no suspension, sat anve, air con, clocks etc. It went back to the dealers time after time for Sat nav faults (once for 2 weeks while I was on holiday in USA - I suppose I should have bought a tom-tom?

Tops and bottoms.

You need one engineer travelling around the country listening to these noises as they can't ALL be this same noise as I find it hard to believe that there cannot be any other problem with the front end of every RRS in the world.

Plus how do you explain the fact that it did not make a noise before it threw its hand in on a cold wet night up a mountain at 70 mph?

As a Land Rover buyer you simply expect the paint to be crap, panel pressings to be a little on the rough side, electronics glitches etc. this is bad enough, BUT this noise (if the noise I have is the noise that your refering to) is one problem to far. It is not acceptable.

If you would like me to bring my car to you just ask - I'm sure that I could bring you a few if you would like us to compare notes - But something tells me that you will decline my offer.

One way or another compare our noises and problems we will... BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5



Last edited by The doc on Wed Dec 13 2006 1:10pm. Edited 2 times in total

VOR.

Do you drive a RRS and is it your own, main car?

Yes or No please BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

Welcome VOR,

What an interesting topic. As one of the few people on this site that would appear, to date, not to have this problem I found your explanation of the cause very enlightening and reassuring. But then I'm not one of the people suffering with it daily. But I'm very happy with mine.

As has already been hinted at...... I think LR should perhaps arrange for a senior Technician/Engineer to be made available for a drop in session, say at Gaydon over one week, where all those persons who have the problem could have their car evaluated by one person to establish the severity and the cause.

As you have already pointed out it varies from one car to the next.......So therefore the noise must vary from one set of ears to the next.....As we don't all have have the same Db sensitivety in the inner ear. The only way to get around this is for one person to do the evaluation.

Then if a solution can be devised ie. more sound proofing or something more dynamic, then this would help your customers. MY08 RRS TDV8 HSE, Stornoway Grey, Ebony and Zabrano, sunroof, hybrid tv, premium ICE, rear E diff, privacy glass, side steps, mud flaps, S/Grey mirror covers, Venture shield,tasmods, smoked indicators, Larini sports exhaust, etc, etc.

Oh forgot to say....When I did my off road experience at Eastnor Castle in the summer the LR Chief Engineer turned up in a new Aston Martin......This could be you VOR

So steady on folks....this could be the person who could help you all  MY08 RRS TDV8 HSE, Stornoway Grey, Ebony and Zabrano, sunroof, hybrid tv, premium ICE, rear E diff, privacy glass, side steps, mud flaps, S/Grey mirror covers, Venture shield,tasmods, smoked indicators, Larini sports exhaust, etc, etc.

"As has already been hinted at...... I think LR should perhaps arrange for a senior Technician/Engineer to be made available for a drop in session, say at Gaydon over one week, where all those persons who have the problem could have their car evaluated by one person to establish the severity and the cause."

Great idea - and LR will know that if and when people show up they have a serious attitude to fixing their gripes and are willing to travel to get their car evaluated. BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

...  BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

All's gone quiet from 'Frank' then?

Maybe he is busy working on our behalf.... BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

I tried Customer Service with the problem today - got the usual answer of "characteristic of the vehicle and is not a fault" despite attempting to state how bad the knocking was.

Let's hope you are right and 'Frank' is digging deeper before returning. I just hope he has not been frightened away.

Well your not on your own now!

Lets let this topic run for a few days then see where we are at.

After that I will start to get some contact details and see where we go from there.

It may be benificial if people meet up to compare noises - sounds a bit daft but at least then we will all be singing from the same hymn sheet! BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

The doc wrote:

Well your not on your own now!

Lets let this topic run for a few days then see where we are at.

After that I will start to get some contact details and see where we go from there.

It may be benificial if people meet up to compare noises - sounds a bit daft but at least then we will all be singing from the same hymn sheet!

I'm in Liverpool so how about M6 Jn19 ish one night / day?

Anyone else up for a meet in the North West area - not to moan but to try and work together as a united front and hopefully work with LR - not bang our heads together  BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5

Gentlemen

1. sorry I don't have the time to commit to posting throughout the day!

2. Eastnor castle, you say, Aston Martin you say, could not possibly comment I say ( no really was not me)..... that time

3. LR chief tech... not quite and I would always deny any associated employment on here

4. Digging deeper.....probably

5. seriously some of you are quite antagonistic and ought to learn not to bite the hand that feeds regardless of if you like the taste of the biscuit or not.
(otherwise this hand that feeds will lose interest real fast)

Moving on

It is clear that a number of owners find the noise an unacceptable cost of having the technology?

there is a system within LR that can tackle this......

In theory every time a customer submits a new fault to a dealer the dealer submits an EPQR to LR (Electronic Product Quality Report)

LR do not jump up and down on every EPQR,(resources do not allow)

so

They set trigger levels (I repeat TRIGGER LEVELS) now this issue has already hit a given trigger level in that it has been investigated and the subsequent EPQR reports and Technical Bulletins have been issued.

This does not mean that the process is finished though

(heres the trick bit)

should Lr recieve enough continued EPQR's from dealers to raise the issue to the next trigger level it will automatically be passed to engineers to investigate any possible way of improving the system.

The safety net for LR is that they are able to concentrate on real customer issues as they arise and based on customers perception of importance.

it is the dealers decision to submit an EPQR but if you ask nicely they will do it.

The gain is a true picture is given to LR on how many customers do not perceive the noise acceptable and as is their automated system should the majority of customers (as is perceived by members here) cause dealers to continue raising EPQR's then you can be almost guaranteed that should a fix be technically possible it will happen

The downside you may have to wait several months for an improved system to become available.

Honestly though the problem as I see it is that in hindsight dealers should have been made aware prior to model launch so that customers could have used the additional information to form part of their buying decision

Oh and the current tech bulletin is quite clear and to the point without any bullshit. in my opinion it is factually correct.

One last thing I have already explained why it is different from one vehicle to the next so I won't bother to repeat myself.( simply re read my posts)


Also heed my earlier advice the Dealer is not he enemy here, the issue if there is one? lays with LR and there is very little the dealer can do except to carry on submitting the EPQR's ( can only be done once per vehicle per fault before anyone asks).

Regards


The Voice Of Reason

PS

DOC I am really not convinced you have the same noise as everyone else, I hope the dealer gets to the bottom of it for you.

MAC have you heard from the DP at your dealer yet? I suspect he could only sympathize

BTW I am long since past carrying out vehicle inspections myself, too busy with other projects and distinctly not interested (seen it all before)

Hi Vor

1. sorry I don't have the time to commit to posting throughout the day!

No problem


2. Eastnor castle, you say, Aston Martin you say, could not possibly comment I say ( no really was not me)..... that time

Ok


3. LR chief tech... not quite and I would always deny any associated employment on here

Ok


4. Digging deeper.....probably

Thanks


5. seriously some of you are quite antagonistic and ought to learn not to bite the hand that feeds regardless of if you like the taste of the biscuit or not.
(otherwise this hand that feeds will lose interest real fast)

Sorry if you are refering to myself but lets face it before we started this we were getting nowhere FAST

Moving on

It is clear that a number of owners find the noise an unacceptable cost of having the technology?

IN MY CASE YES


there is a system within LR that can tackle this......

NICE


In theory every time a customer submits a new fault to a dealer the dealer submits an EPQR to LR (Electronic Product Quality Report)

LR do not jump up and down on every EPQR,(resources do not allow)

so

They set trigger levels (I repeat TRIGGER LEVELS) now this issue has already hit a given trigger level in that it has been investigated and the subsequent EPQR reports and Technical Bulletins have been issued.

This does not mean that the process is finished though

(heres the trick bit)

should Lr recieve enough continued EPQR's from dealers to raise the issue to the next trigger level it will automatically be passed to engineers to investigate any possible way of improving the system.

The safety net for LR is that they are able to concentrate on real customer issues as they arise and based on customers perception of importance.

it is the dealers decision to submit an EPQR but if you ask nicely they will do it.

The gain is a true picture is given to LR on how many customers do not perceive the noise acceptable and as is their automated system should the majority of customers (as is perceived by members here) cause dealers to continue raising EPQR's then you can be almost guaranteed that should a fix be technically possible it will happen

The downside you may have to wait several months for an improved system to become available.




Honestly though the problem as I see it is that in hindsight dealers should have been made aware prior to model launch so that customers could have used the additional information to form part of their buying decision

Agreed


Oh and the current tech bulletin is quite clear and to the point without any bullshit. in my opinion it is factually correct.

Agreed but it sound like it is used as a get out of jail card for all and any rattle


One last thing I have already explained why it is different from one vehicle to the next so I won't bother to repeat myself.( simply re read my posts)

ok ok


Also heed my earlier advice the Dealer is not he enemy here, the issue if there is one? lays with LR and there is very little the dealer can do except to carry on submitting the EPQR's ( can only be done once per vehicle per fault before anyone asks).

Done already were after help from the big boys - we have shown our commitment to LR by buying your product so help us to help you sell more.

Regards


The Voice Of Reason

PS

DOC I am really not convinced you have the same noise as everyone else, I hope the dealer gets to the bottom of it for you.

thanks and agreed


BTW I am long since past carrying out vehicle inspections myself, too busy with other projects and distinctly not interested (seen it all before)

nice... BMW 535d
Landcruiser VX 4.5