I assume that the 4.4l is very similar to the 3.6l.

The 3.6l has the MAF sensors just downstream of the airfilter a long way from the EGR inlet which should be downstream of the throttle butterflies. Thus soot buildup of the MAF sensor should not be an issue. The only contamination upstream of the throttle butterflies will be from the crankcase ventilation system which should connect upstream of the turbos. Modern high compression turbo diesels have significant crankcase oil carryover which is why a lot of people put catchcans inline with the crancase ventilation system to remove oil entering the inlet system (not possible on the Lion V8 as there is nowhere to put the catchcan inline (as far as I am aware). If the crancase ventilation system is connected close to the MAF sensors then you can get some oil residue buildup on the sensor wires. But based upon my 3.6 I cannot see the cranckcase ventilation connection anywhere close to the MAF sensors - so again this should not be an issue.
Some Diesels have MAP sensor connections just downstream of the throttle butterfly but I don't know if the Lion V8 has these. Soot buildup on the MAP connection port is quite common and can cause all sorts of engine running problems. Most modern diesels can run fine with the throttle body electrical plug disconnected. I have proved this by accident and only noticed it when a warning light came up on the dashboard. The default position of the throttle butterfly with power off is fully open so having the throttle butterfly being stuck closed is very unlikely from soot buildup.

I have seen lots of diesel inlet manifolds which have significant buildup just downstream of the throttle butterfly but never one jammed by soot buildup. As the throttle butterflies are always moving it is unlikely that they will get jammed. The inlet swirl butterfly valves are a different story but I am not sure again if the Lion V8 has these.

In general soot buildup will not stop a diesel from operating, it may run rough, have idle problems and flatspots but not much more.

I didn't think that diesels had "throttle butterflies"? MY2016 HSE D SDV6 - gone due to fuel dilution problems.

By the age of 50 you have the face you deserve - George Orwell.

Thanks for all the comments on this.

I have attached a snapshot from the Service report which details the issue.

You will also note a campaign Q603 Electronic Park Brake Module. Apparently I have to have this replaced under warranty so the car has to go in again.

Click image to enlarge

You need to run this like a fox, good open road run to dust the cobwebs out required I think. Perhaps some low grade diesel, don't usually get this sort of build up on a new vehicle? M16 SVD8 ,4.4 HSE with a few extras, Sold R50 , Wife SQ5 , BMW R1200GSW.

Hi IRbails,

I asked if they thought it was poor quality fuel but the technicians didn't think so. Hopefully the technical request that has gone to JLR can shed some light. 2016 Range Rover Sport SDV8 HSE Dynamic (Indus Silver/Santorini Black Pano Roof, Ebony/Cirrus leather, custom grey Style 508 alloys)

Thinking about this the only way is via the intake plumbing, so possibly some bypass oil from a new engine bedding in , slight turbo seal leak perhaps ? Worth keeping an eye on I'd recommend pulling the intake off every now and then and checking the build up , mind you I was good at working on my V10 in this area not sure how easy it is for the RRS. If you can check it fairly easy it may alert you to a future issue if one does exist. It would concern me because there must be a cause and I would want to know if it just a running in issue , PVC valve or whatever , but for the low k's you have up so far this should not occur IMO. M16 SVD8 ,4.4 HSE with a few extras, Sold R50 , Wife SQ5 , BMW R1200GSW.

I agree with your sentiments.

Rest assured I wont be letting this drop. I will be chasing for a technical response from JLR as I want to know that this will not become a long term detrimental issue. 2016 Range Rover Sport SDV8 HSE Dynamic (Indus Silver/Santorini Black Pano Roof, Ebony/Cirrus leather, custom grey Style 508 alloys)

Just had a look at the throttle body diagram and EGR connections are after the flap (air flow direction) but still quite close to the flap so soot could have been introduced from the recirculated gases.


Mass Air flow sensor/s are not on this module, it sits separately, just after the Air Cleaner/s

The EGR inlets into the inlet ducting are just downstream (about 100mm) of the throttle valve butterfly shaft and pointing against the direction of flow at about an angle of 30 deg. from the axis of flow (i.e pointing directly at the throttle valve butterfly). So if the vehicle spent a lot of time at idle or low load it may be possible to build up carbon deposits around the throttle valve butterfly.

What may be concerning is how much carbon did the dealer remove to free the throttle valve and is there significant carbon buildup downstream along the inlet ducting to the plenums. Without removing the ducting down stream of the throttle valve it would be very difficult to clean carbon deposits. The inlet ducting is all plastic and with not much access to the internals so I would be interested to know what process is used to remove deposits. Also removal of the ducting appears to be a major excercise.

It looks like a replacement job rather than a cleaning job if the ducting becomes built up with carbon deposits.



I borrowed the picture from the fullfatrr forum.

On vehicles with metal inlet ducting removal of carbon buildup is a very difficult job - not sure how this works with plastic ducting especially if you cannot get access.

The lion V8 has been around long enough for users to have carbon buildup problems so cleaning of the ducting must be a fairly common procedure.

Love to know if blocking off the EGR gives rise to a fault code.Looks like a blanking plate would not be to hard to make, fitting it might be an issue though. I tried blocking the EGR on my R50, produced a fault, earlier versions of the V10 could be blocked without a fault. Seems EGR causes lots of issues, notice they regularly get blocked off by Land-cruiser owners. Does the SVD8 have a water cooled EGR ? These caused a lot of issues in the VW world from leaks. M16 SVD8 ,4.4 HSE with a few extras, Sold R50 , Wife SQ5 , BMW R1200GSW.

I believe all modern turbo diesels have a water cooler in the EGR system to cool exhaust gas prior to entrance into the inlet system. An air cooler would not be practical for the duty.

The Lion V8 has 2 coolers, one for each EGR system (left and right).

Let's hope these don't leak, I am not a fan of sticking exhaust gases into the intake. Understand the logic, but seems there are a lot of dissenters to the practice. M16 SVD8 ,4.4 HSE with a few extras, Sold R50 , Wife SQ5 , BMW R1200GSW.

With the recent VW debacle it is interesting to see a large % of diesel vehicle owners who are prepared to disable the EGR system of their diesel vehicle so that the soot buildup issue goes away, similarly DPF removal is now becoming common place because DPF's cannot operate effectively in low speed low travel distance duties. And now we are starting to see problems with Urea injection systems. So how come VW is so guilty and yet individual owners can do similarly evil acts of disabling emission control systems and yet their is little comment in forums on their act.

You see in most vehicle forums where diesel powered cars are prevalent, forum posts on disabling emmision control systems which is clearly an illegal act. Do we have double standards.

In general modern diesel technology is flawed in so much that:
- Fuel quality standards in many countries do not meet the stringent requirements required (or are unrealistic) by direct injection diesel systems and the ongoing maintenance cost after a few years of operation is severe. Not a problem by the 1st owner who gets rid of a vehicle after a few years. But afterwards?
- DPF systems do not work well in short travel low speed duty cycles. Do manufactures say don't buy this vehicle if?
- Urea injection systems are complex and prone to long term failure due to the corrosive nature of the fluid. We haven't seen the fallout from this device yet.

I think this is a good explanation of what the EGR does

"By feeding the lower oxygen exhaust gas into the intake, diesel EGR systems lower combustion temperature, reducing emissions of NOx. This makes combustion less efficient, compromising economy and power. The normally "dry" intake system of a diesel engine is now subject to fouling from soot, unburned fuel and oil in the EGR bleed, which has little effect on airflow. However, when combined with oil vapor from a PCV system, can cause buildup of sticky tar in the intake manifold and valves. It can also cause problems with components such as swirl flaps, where fitted. Diesel EGR also increases soot production, though this was masked in the US by the simultaneous introduction of diesel particulate filters. EGR systems can also add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity."

Pretty easy to see why people want to disable , in the V10 the combination of PVC gases and Exhaust made it very easy to see the sticky stuff around the intake body. M16 SVD8 ,4.4 HSE with a few extras, Sold R50 , Wife SQ5 , BMW R1200GSW.

This is all assuming the the lovely dealer is telling the truth of course. Cmon guys. MY 14.5 SE SDV6 Loire Blue. Silver roof. 22's.