Curious to hear what those around the world think about the current state of the USA. 2020 SVR / R.I.P. 2019 SVR / 2016 D4 Landmark / 2005 D3 HSE

People in glass houses...... RRS HSE Dynamic SDV6 2014

Nemo mortalium omnibus horus sapit

Seems to be on a slippery slope to either autocracy or civil war. What happens around the 2026 mid terms will have a big effect on where the US ends up, I think.

Sadly, we have politicians in the UK who are trying to ape Trump and it's not going to end well here either. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

I’ll have a go.
Let’s start with the big ticket item. Trump. He’s an interesting character. Clearly a crook, narcissist, and makes stuff up. His grasp on reality, let alone world events is tenuous. However, beyond all that, he has something utterly lacking in our own current leadership. Moral conviction. If he believes in something, that’s what he’s going to do, no matter the backlash. (I’m aware it’s likely more his team than him but he’s at the centre) In contrast, our waste of space PM will say one thing, then do as he’s told by some of the most despicable failures of humanity who form the morally vacuous, hate based core of his backbenchers.
(I don’t like our government, can you tell?)

Gun control. “You can’t challenge the second amendment “. As a comedian pointed out, it’s called an amendment for a reason. You seem to have mass shootings almost daily, yet even with school shootings, Trump being shot and now Charlie Kirk, (who was murdered whilst arguing against gun control - is that the definition of irony?) there’s still no appetite for the sort of measures that we in the UK see as normal . “A well armed and regulated militia” to allegedly protect the citizen against a government. Ok, may have made some sense in the late 18th century but today? How precisely is your stockpile of AR15s and ammo going to protect you against a government with marines, helicopter gunships and cruise missiles?
The truth, as I see it, is obvious. Most of us have handled and fired a gun at some point. We all had toy ones as kids. It makes feel important, powerful, relevant- and that’s why we like them. We all handle electric drills as if they’re guns. (Yeah you too - admit it! 😂). As men we like the feeling it gives us. And that’s why you won’t give them up..everything else is just cover. Only your children are dying as a result. Mass delusion from the perspective of a country where few people have them and the regulations are strict. I get the appeal but to British eyes, the price is way too high.

Religion - one of the biggest differences. You can’t make it in politics if you’re not openly religious and follow god in the US. Here, if you’re religious, we automatically don’t trust you. We view religion as a corrupt and outdated nonsense, invented to control society and want our leaders following reason, logic and evidenced based science instead. If someone says they are guided by god, we hear is that their most important advisor is a 6ft rabbit called Harvey. The level and power of religion in the US we view with bemusement and deep suspicion. It’s mass hysteria and brainwashing. If you want the wider British perspective, Ricky Gervais is a pretty good example.

So in the one hand, you have some of the brightest and best educated people on the planet, on the other hand, you also have the dumbest and most gullible.

But all that said, the majority of Brits envy where you are in your political cycle. The insanity of the left has gone way too far and needs urgently pushing back, as is happening over there, though you are possibly going too far in some areas. Meantime we have a government that’s universally hated, only got in because the previous incumbents fell apart and we’re all clinging on in the hope they fall before they do too much damage. What happens over there, happens here, which gives us a modicum of hope.

As a nation, for all your craziness, you have a deep moral centre which we Brits, as a whole, share. Our beliefs differ but our values are very similar and we firmly believe that despite protestations and inevitable delays, ultimately you have our backs, as we have yours.

I believe your attitude to entrepreneurship is laudable, but equally, the way you treat staff is unacceptable . You don’t have enough protections, paid holiday or benefits.
And the fact someone can go bankrupt through medical costs or even die because they can’t afford medication is shameful. Equally the corrupt nature of your medical industry is also shameful.

So, a great country with many great aspects, but not remotely as great as many Americans think, and certainly not a place we envy.
Does that make sense? 2021 L494 D300MHEV Autobiography
2019 Discovery Sport D180 HSE

I appreciate your thoughts. I asked because I’m genuinely curious how the USA is viewed beyond our borders. I’ve had the privilege - through hard work - to be able to travel in many different parts of the world. The attitude towards Americans today seems significantly different than 25 years ago when I first started exploring. And it’s not good I’ll tell you that.

I live in Chicago and we have terrible gun violence in certain underprivileged areas, has been that way since the 70’s. Except now, those same perpetrators are shooting up the areas where tourists, vacationers, and people shop. Just last week the Rolex store on Michigan Ave was robbed and shot into at 2 pm on a weekday afternoon. Trump is threatening to send in the national guard to establish safety. Hate him or love him I don’t know anyone that opposes this they would rather see soldiers on street corners than walk in fear.

I believe the Charlie Kirk shooting will be a dividing line for this country. If someone can bring us together we have a chance, but no one knows who that person will be. So for a lot of us we sense that things will get worse from here. It’s a sad state of affairs that you can be assassinated for willing to debate any topic and open to debate by anyone. 2020 SVR / R.I.P. 2019 SVR / 2016 D4 Landmark / 2005 D3 HSE

There are a number of divides in all societies right now.
Right vs Left is as big a problem here as there. Until the internet, we all got our facts from the same place, so any political movement that strayed far from the centre line, soon found itself in the wilderness.

The internet has been, in many ways, the worst thing, possibly fatal, for democratic societies.
Now any mentally ill crackpot with a half baked idea can get a following. Flat earthers have millions of followers. In response and in a desperate attempt to stay relevant, the media has followed suit so there is no longer any trusted source. The BBC used to be considered the gold standard in independent broadcasting. Today it's just another left wing mouthpiece. Maybe not as extreme as some, but their agenda is obvious.

People take comfort in their world view and don't take kindly to challenge. It's why Charlie Kirk's debates were always so entertaining. Highly opinionated people with the arrogance to think they have a monopoly on truth. With simple Q&A, he was able to expose the lies and contradictions in their perspective.

I see the same watching endless 'vlog' channels on the current ME conflict. I see the media with their simplistic and twisted reports and having 'skin in the game' and lived with it for 50 years, the tricks they use become obvious. One side "says" (truth), the other "claims" (lying). A simple but effective trick to lie whist retaining plausible deniability. Read any BBC report on the ME and you'll see it front and centre.

I believe that Q&A challenge style of debate is probably Charlie Kirk's greatest legacy. "Prove me wrong" as he would say. But ultimately people don't want their cosy world view challenged and when they get home, to their internet echo chambers and the crackpots and liars that reside there, it's all returned to normal. Few break the programming.

I share your sense of doom. Between politics and religion, the dividing lines are clearly drawn and only getting stronger. It's hard not to conclude that unless something changes (and there's no evidence that will happen), we're all heading to some sort of civil war.
Already we have Islamists marching in increasingly huge numbers, preaching hate on our streets every week, and the typically quiet British response, St George's flags going up everywhere.

But its clear people aren't happy and it isn't going to take much to push them over the edge into widespread violence. Governments are equally polarised, with our current shower, despite a few minor concessions, very much on the side of the Islamists, if only because they naively think their votes will keep them in power. Meantime, British people see this and conclude their government doesn't have their best interests at heart - and that's always dangerous.
There's a march in London this weekend. I'm watching with both fascination and mild concern to see how many turn up. I suspect it will be huge and send a big message. But I don't think the government want to hear it. When they inevitably resort to type, brand it 'right wing extremism' and arrogantly ignore it, I suspect things will get much worse.
So whilst we're behind you, not by much, and history has plenty to say on what comes next. 2021 L494 D300MHEV Autobiography
2019 Discovery Sport D180 HSE

Quite how a nation of circa 300m people can only put forward one senile geriatric and one crackpot geriatric forward as president beggars belief.

The worry now in my opinion is on the world stage we have have one despot leader (Putin) and your crackpot leader who between them would happily destroy Europe/Russia/USA whilst sat in their bunkers. Meanwhile China sits in the background ready to mop up the mess. (Simplistic I know, but fro the last 30 years China has manufactured for the west, learnt our technology, invested heavily in resource rich areas - Africa etc - waiting patiently to rule the world) MY17 RRS 4.4d V8 Autobiography - Aintree Green (also referred to on Topix as British Racing Green)

41jules1967 wrote:

But all that said, the majority of Brits envy where you are in your political cycle. The insanity of the left has gone way too far and needs urgently pushing back, as is happening over there, though you are possibly going too far in some areas. Meantime we have a government that’s universally hated, only got in because the previous incumbents fell apart and we’re all clinging on in the hope they fall before they do too much damage. What happens over there, happens here, which gives us a modicum of hope.

Wow, speaking for us all, eh?

As it happens, whilst I'm not enamoured of our current Government, I'd rather them than the idiots we just got rid of or the grifting fascists trying to get in next time. I'd rather the current Government didn't keep trying to march to the grifters' tune but I understand why they think they need to.

The government isn't universally hated. It's perhaps hated in the circles in which you mingle - that's classic echo chamber stuff and something we all have to be mindful of.

And if what happens in the US might happen here and that gives you hope, then I very much hate to think what you think the UK should be doing. Because what's happening in the US is nothing short of a return to Victorian times - a very few with all of the power and wealth and everyone else living hand to mouth and struggling to see any future for their children other than living in worse conditions.

We are watching politicians in the US create a whole generation that is worse off than its parents or grand parents were (a few mega wealthy people notwithstanding). And we have politicians in the UK who would do the same thing.

Trump (and Farage) are everything wrong in politics. They prosper by sowing hatred and division whilst telling the people they are grifting that they are on their side. Trump and Farage both pretend to be men of the people. And they are, just not the people in the street. Sadly, other politicians think that the only way they can succeed is by trying to beat Trump and Farage at their own game. And that results in a race to the bottom. Brexit has scared the doodah out of moderate politicians in the UK because it showed that even when you present the electorate with the facts, they will believe the lies that confirm their own prejudices. And that is precisely what Trump and Farage play on. Sound bite lies that are repeated over and over until they become the established truth in the minds of the great unwashed masses. Goebbels would have been proud of them. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

41jules1967 wrote:

I believe that Q&A challenge style of debate is probably Charlie Kirk's greatest legacy. "Prove me wrong" as he would say. But ultimately people don't want their cosy world view challenged and when they get home, to their internet echo chambers and the crackpots and liars that reside there, it's all returned to normal. Few break the programming.