RRSPORT.CO.UK

    Forum   Gallery   Shop   Sponsors
Home > General (L494) > Range to "oil service required" plummets
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 2 of 2 <12
 
pjbracer1



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Southampton
Posts: 37

England 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Santorini Black

I know this is an old thread but is this issue isolated to euro6 diesels or all LR diesels in general? I dont do a massive amount of miles if im honest per year and walk to work but when I do go out for a drive or go somewhere it will be for a while and woud suspect the engine would get warm enough if I was to flip it into manual mode and hold the gears a little bit more surely it would get warm enough to clear out the filter (RRS sdv6 model)

Does the filter naturally clean itself if the engine is running warm through use generally or does it require a burn at certain points, I'm assuming that the auto regen is the ECU trying to help by trying to increase the temp using extra fuel hence where the problems are occurring and possibly that depending on what time the regen started it might not have a chance to finish if the journey ends to soon (I guess you would never no this either) Im guessing if a regen was initiated and didnt run or complete it would attempt another one which again could compound the problem if it was during another shot trip?

It seems as if finding a tame local indy that can perform an oild and filter change using the same oil and filter is probably the best bet, ive always done this on my previous cars anyway as the cost of oil isnt too bad, I didnt on my last RRS SC and a Merc AMG CLK55 granted both were petrol but also very expensive engines! If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

Post #599129 Wed May 20 2020 12:38pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 6943

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Orkney Grey

The regen is started automatically when the back pressure in the filter reaches a certain level. Extra fuel is then added to increase the temperature of the exhaust gas in the filter to burn off the particulates. So long as the regen cycle is completed, there's no problem. Those doing short journeys seems to be at the greatest risk as the system will try to do regens more often which increases oil dilution risk.

In the 50k miles I've done in my 2012 SDV6, it's never shown any messages or lowered the service interval. I tend to do good runs at a time with some short journeys thrown in but the short stuff is between longer runs so it seems to be happy. A run at motorway speeds for 20-30 minutes will certainly be enough to allow the regen to be completed if you're concerned.

From the workshop manual:

Quote:
DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF)
Two processes are used to regenerate the DPF; passive and active.

Passive Regeneration

Passive regeneration requires no special engine management intervention and occurs during normal engine
operation. The passive regeneration involves a slow conversion of the particulate matter deposited in the DPF into
carbon dioxide. This process occurs when the DPF temperature exceeds 250°C (482°F) and is a continuous process
when the vehicle is being driven at higher engine loads and speeds.

During passive regeneration, only a portion of the particulate matter is converted into carbon dioxide. This is
because the chemical reaction, which utilises nitrogen dioxide, is slower than the rate of engine production of
particulate matter and is effective from 250°C (482°F).

Above 580°C the conversion efficiency of the particulates into carbon dioxide rapidly increases. These temperatures
are generally only be achieved using the active regeneration process.

Active Regeneration

Active regeneration starts when the particulate loading of the DPF reaches a threshold as monitored or determined
by the DPF control software. The threshold calculation is based on driving style, distance travelled and back pressure
signals from the differential pressure sensor.

Active regeneration generally occurs every 250 miles (400 km) although this is dependant on how the vehicle is
driven. For example, if the vehicle is driven at low loads in urban traffic regularly, active regeneration will occur more
often. This is due to the rapid build-up of particulates in the DPF than if the vehicle is driven at high speeds when
passive regeneration will have occurred.
The DPF software incorporates a mileage trigger which is used as back-up for active regeneration. If active
regeneration has not been initiated by a back pressure signal from the differential pressure sensor, regeneration is
requested based on distance travelled.

Active regeneration of the DPF is commenced when the temperature of the DPF is increased to the combustion
temperature of the particles. The DPF temperature is raised by increasing the exhaust gas temperature. This is
achieved by introducing post-injection of fuel after the pilot and main fuel injections have occurred.
It is determined by the DPF software monitoring the signals from the two DPF temperature sensors to establish the
temperature of the DPF. Depending on the DPF temperature, the DPF software requests the ECM (engine control
module) to perform either one or two post-injections of fuel:
The first post-injection of fuel retards combustion inside the cylinder which increases the temperature of the
exhaust gas.
The second post-injection of fuel is injected late in the power stroke cycle. The fuel partly combusts in the
cylinder, but some unburnt fuel also passes into the exhaust where it creates an exothermic event within the
catalytic converter, further increasing the temperature of the DPF.

The active regeneration process takes up to 20 minutes to complete. The first phase increases the DPF temperature
to 500°C (932°F). The second phase further increases the DPF temperature to 600°C (1112°F) which is the
optimum temperature for particle combustion. This temperature is then maintained for 15-20 minutes to ensure
complete oxidation of the particles within the DPF. The oxidation process converts the carbon particles to carbon
dioxide.

The active regeneration temperature of the DPF is closely monitored by the DPF software to maintain a target
temperature of 600°C (1112°F) at the DPF inlet. The temperature control ensures that the temperatures do not
exceed the operational limits of the turbocharger and the catalytic converter. The turbocharger inlet temperature
must not exceed 830°C (1526°F) and the catalytic converter brick temperature must not exceed 800°C (1472°F) and
the exit temperature must remain below 875°C (1382°F).

During the active regeneration process the following ECM controlled events occur:
The turbocharger is maintained in the fully open position. This minimizes heat transmission from the exhaust
gas to the turbocharger and reduces the rate of exhaust gas flow allowing optimum heating of the DPF. If the
driver demands an increase in engine torque, the turbocharger will respond by closing the vanes as
necessary.

The throttle is closed as this assists in increasing the exhaust gas temperature and reduces the rate of
exhaust gas flow which has the effect of reducing the time for the DPF to reach the optimum temperature.
The EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve is closed. The use of EGR decreases the exhaust gas temperature
and therefore prevents the optimum DPF temperature being achieved.

If, due to vehicle usage and/or driving style, the active regeneration process cannot take place or is unable to
regenerate the DPF, the dealer can force regenerate the DPF. This is achieved by either driving the vehicle until the
engine is at its normal operating temperature and then driving for a further 20 minutes at speeds of not less than 30
mph (48 km/h).
 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #599130 Wed May 20 2020 1:20pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjbracer1



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Southampton
Posts: 37

England 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Santorini Black

Cheers RRSTDV8 thats sound pretty much what my plan was too, after reading some of the posts I got a little bit panicky! Ive never had a diesel always sporty petrols so all a bit weird to me Im just used to jumping in letting it warm up and then planting my foot!

Is this situation remedied by the more prem diesel do you think? Cant hurt to stick a half tank in every other!

Im guessing the filter doesnt fill up if the car is driven at higher speeds of gets the chance to get properly hot as it will probably burn the soot away naturally without the ecu assisted regen

It seems most are referring to my15 my16 models so wasnt sure if it was part of the Euro 6 emissions where maybe euro 5 specs it was not so much of a problem

Does having a remap help with this issue or add to it, if anyone knows that would be handy too! If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

Post #599134 Wed May 20 2020 2:39pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
riverblanche



Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Retford'ish
Posts: 785

United Kingdom 

pjbracer1 wrote:
perform an oil and filter change using the same oil and filter is probably the best bet, !


No.1. think you need to update your profile Whistle Laughing

If your going to do an oil and filter change, your best putting new in not using the old Shocked no point doing it otherwise Confused

DPF issues affect All diesel engines (not just LR) to a more or less degree as you have said regens and oil dilution in the oil so fresh oil is best and a good long run now and again to let the DPF do its think
You need to then reset the oil counter when you have changed the oil
(model dependant if you can do this yourself, IID type tool or Indep visit required Question )

Thumbs Up its Going, Going ! now Gone.
Replaced with a Cayenne 2020
gone Corris Grey HSE Dynamic 2016
gone Ipanema HSE lux 2010
gone Rimini HSE 2005
!!

Post #599135 Wed May 20 2020 3:15pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjbracer1



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Southampton
Posts: 37

England 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Santorini Black

yeah that was a nick name the old man had for me when I was a nipper! Used to love Golf Gti 16V's! Now its little more sit behind the wheel moaning about the idiots on the road with the occasional made moment (i generally save that for when im in Vegas or Miami its so cheap to rent a Jag F Type or Porker for a bit of fun).

Yeah the oil change would be new oil new filter just in case it was contaminated or in this case now diluted.

I have the IID tool does that give the details of how many regens have been performed in between services? as that would be handy to know as Im sure a smart cookie (or a service tech) could work out approx how much dilution is created from a regen and also failed regen although I suspect failed or not fully completed ones are not logged.

Anyone got any idea on how much oil is needed for the sdv6? I cant see that its worth getting LR to perform the oil change unless they give a courtesy car to play with and its fairly priced but I cant see that, so thought id get an indy to do an oil change and then let LR do the main services (Ill keep history for both) If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

Post #599136 Wed May 20 2020 3:41pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 6943

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Orkney Grey

Use a decent indy for all work. Avoid LR dealers. That's the best advice anyone can give. Thumbs Up 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #599155 Wed May 20 2020 9:26pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjbracer1



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Southampton
Posts: 37

England 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Santorini Black

Yep agreed I think I might just get the next one at the LR as they are now offering fixed prices for older models and the last one was the 80K service (carried out at 35K) so the next one is £395 that said Im not sure if that is inc vat and including parts as it doesnt say on the site!

I did out of interest look for a service plan but they seem to charge more for 3 services than it would cost if I just took it in each your for an interim and then one major (major being £545)

But I have sent them an email on the cost of an oil and filter change just to see how much they want and asked about the oil dilution issue so Ill see if I get anything back! (I wont hold my breath though!) If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

Post #599160 Thu May 21 2020 12:33am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 6943

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Orkney Grey

I would bet that they'll also find "essential work" required elsewhere such as brakes for which they charge a king's ransom. Standard main dealer tactics. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #599161 Thu May 21 2020 8:02am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjbracer1



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Southampton
Posts: 37

England 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Santorini Black

Yeah I think that is their sales tactic!

https://www.inchcape.co.uk/land-rover/serv...servicing/

Although Im not sure if the prices are too bad my Indy did the brakes on my SC a few times (she was a heavy lump!) and he was about the same price for front and rear discs and pads as they are for either front or back! Im not sure how they can every justify the prices, they would get more get more repeat punters to up sell to if they were priced sensibly! Its only really for the full history online now, but I dont think when it comes to sell time on older cars that you will ever get the money back once it goes past a certain age and alot of the time dealers just fit things rather than know what the problem is so it can get expensive unless it warranty and there is the illusion that if it been serviced at main dealers all its life then further down the line they might be more willing to foot some of the bill on something major as good will If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

Post #599162 Thu May 21 2020 9:00am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
samd



Member Since: 21 Sep 2009
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 92

England 2013 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Santorini Black

Its only really for the full history online now

Indies can put the service data on line.

Post #599164 Thu May 21 2020 9:19am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjbracer1



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Southampton
Posts: 37

England 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Santorini Black

The guy i used for the SC was very good but tech wasnt his thing so it was paperwork only which isnt an issue to be fair, it would be handy if they could update the LR OSH portal if they registered but knowing LR they would want that to keep the riff raff out so to speak If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

Post #599166 Thu May 21 2020 10:36am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
naks



Member Since: 15 Jul 2016
Location: Stellenbosch
Posts: 648

South Africa 2013 Range Rover Sport Supercharged Siberian Silver

somewhat related, this is an oil analysis on an SCV8 after 10K miles:



Quote:
I was interested in tracking the oil in the RRS due to running the AP velocity tune and pulley along with the recommended extended oil change intervals. I normally aim to change the oil in the 7-8k miles range but stretched it to 10k this time before changing the oil and sending off the sample.

The results came back today with really good numbers for 10k. Low numbers on all the wear metals and fuel dilution with a high TBN showing there was plenty of additives still in it. With these numbers I’m confident 10k-12k miles is fine on these motors, Especaily since this is running at 650 hp with plenty of pulls. I’d have to see the numbers again at 12k+ to see if I’d stretch it to the 16k I’ve seen recommended.

The high titanium is what makes the Castrol Professional Edge different and more expensive then most oils, incase you’ve wondered why it is so pricey.
 --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport Supercharged V8 HSE Dynamic



Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

Post #599169 Thu May 21 2020 12:27pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 2 of 2 <12
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2005-2020 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
RRSPORT.CO.UK RSS Feed - All Forums

Switch to Mobile site