Does anybody know what LandRovers are designed to work in under cold temperature use?

One of the Freel2 member has suffered from a frozen crank case ventilator and LR Norway are saying that its not covered under warranty due to been used in Extreme Conditions at minus 28c

http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic5232.html?highlight=

just wondering if anybody has a link to the data, as i recall seeing they was tested from +50c (in a desert) to -40c (in a freezer) or something similar

if they test a car to these extremes and don't provide any literature to say using it at -28c you will not be covered under warranty, then you presume you'll be alright

The winter testing is done in Arjeplog http://www.arjeplogtestcenter.com/ in northern Sweden.

Although the testing is done to extremes, it is not done to say you should replicate these conditions. It's like any destruction testing on any machine, it finds the failures in extremes and often simulates resonable abuse.

Although, if they don't give (which I don't know if they do or not) a specified operating range, then I would also assume there isn't one - on the premise that the weather cannot be controlled or abused, then they should cover it. Everything you buy usually has an operating range (my outside sensor lights said minus 20, and they DO fail below this, as soon as the temp comes back up, they work again)

It's a weak argumant to say that the cold has caused the issue on the car though. Look at all the other disclaimers they have.

Minus 25 to 30, as we have here right now in Sweden is extreme, but is happening just outside a world capital city - it's not like an artic exploration mission. My RRS (so far) has weathered minus 29 this year without any issues. Although with the usual locks freezing and heavy battery drain, but you'd expect that in Solihull!

Be interested to know where LR stand on this challenge - good luck and keep us posted.

Interesting question... I haven't heard of a minimum operating temperature for the car. It could be that the various oils etc start to freeze before the running gear otherwise seizes. Has your FL2 member had a friendly chat with LRCS for advice? 

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If you are correct and there is nothing in the literature provided to the customer
with the car that sets any operating limits, whether high or low, I'd say that LR
Norway haven't got a leg to stand on and have to honour the warranty! 2013 Discovery HSE Luxury - 3.0 SDV6 - Santorini Black
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As far as he says he spoke to the LR garage and the garage spoke to the LR Agent in Denmark, who handle Scandinavia, (slightly different setup over there by sounds of it) and he's explained the manuals offer no guidence but still said No

He also has the extra diesel run heaters you can get out there on the FL2 as well as an other one

Berra wrote:

It was parked outside. It´s fitted with a auxiliary heater (Webasto, running on diesel), I think every car sold in Norway and Sweden has that as standard equipment. In addition the dealer that sold the car to me fitted the car with DEFA warm up system (http://www.defa.com/heating.php3?lang=3) which is a electrical engine and interior heater and battery charger. It´s fully automated and we always use it as soon as temperature go below zero. In addition the engine had been running on idle 5-10 min before we left home. I really had taken every precaution possible...

The DEFA system he refers to is an heating element that usually replaces one of the expansion plugs in the block. It connects via a cable to a male terminal that sits on the front grill or wing - when you come home you plug it in via a special extension cable.

Usually this is used with a small fan heater fitted on the side of the transmission tunnel in the footwell - this is wired into the same electrical contact as the engine heater - it's that simple but quite ugly.

90% of cars in Sweden are retro fitted with the DEFA system - I personally heat the garage and have a toasty car and place to load the kids!

I thought the Webasto diesel heater was just for cold markets, but I was told it is standard equipment throughout Europe?!?

Our equivilant of Bobby has posted this answer to why it happens

alex_pescaru wrote:

It's a common thing PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) freeze, to many vehicles.
During heat up period, the water vapours inside the crankcase will condense during their travel along the colder pipes of the recirculation system and because of the lower temperatures, they'll quickly freeze.
The continuous added ice will eventually plug the hose(s) and pressure will build up inside crankcase, resulting in what you've experienced.

If that happened, then at least could be said that it is a small design flaw. So, they can't do anything, even if they want. For this reason the story with "no warranty" and "extreme conditions".
Anyway, it's better on FL2 than on many other cars, because the routing of the PCV hoses is made pretty near to the engine block and the PCV valve is on top of the exhaust camshaft, so in a warmer zone. The warmer engine zones will try to melt the eventual ice plug(s).

It's good that you've stoppeed in time. Fill again the engine with oil and enjoy your FL2.

Still, when very cold, avoid small trips and try to make longer ones in order to let the condensed water vapours to evaporate from the inside of the hoses and in this way to prevent "ice plugs".

I've uploaded the advert for FL2 extended temperature range usage here:

See the final of the clip for the "surprise"...

tornado34 wrote:

I thought the Webasto diesel heater was just for cold markets, but I was told it is standard equipment throughout Europe?!?

Hmmm it was an optional extra when I priced one up (RRS) here in Belgium back in 2007, EVERYTHING is an "extra" here even on an HSE needles to say I bought mine in the UK.
Last winter it got down to -28c here in Belgium and I had no problems with the car but it was only for one night that it got that cold, rest of the time it was hovering around -15c to -18c Sons of dogs come hither and get flesh
Clan Cameron

LR thought my suspension issues were down to frosty weather. All of -7 on Sunday night Monday morning. Reckoned a sensor had frozen!! Current, M135i in Estoril Blue with more extras than the cast of Ben Hur.

535d m-sport Platinum grey and a few extras.... Gone

X5 3.0 sd in Space Grey, 20's, Dynamic Pack, Memory Pack, Media Pack, Tow Pack, Rear DVD, Panoramic Sunroof, Steps, 7 Seat Pack, Reversing Camera with moving lines, programmable park heat, etc etc etc - Gone

Range Rover Sport Santorini, privacy, dvd, towpack GONE!!!

Left Wick yesterday morning at 5am, the sun was hardly up when we were crossing the Drumochter Pass and the outside temp guage was reading -18c Brrrrrrrrr! It was a fantastic day to travel yesterday and we were in Newcastle for 2pm after the wife had gone shopping at Gretna Outlets for an hour and a half  Sons of dogs come hither and get flesh
Clan Cameron