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nebc100



Member Since: 27 Aug 2017
Location: Altlinster
Posts: 100

Luxembourg 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE Java Black
Advice on how to deal with "stolen" horse

Hello All,

I just wanted your opinions on how to deal with an interesting (but not good) situation that I find myself in.

Shortest version:
approx. 1 year ago, I decided that I would have get rid of one of my horses because she was getting dangerous (mood swings, and was jealous of my other horse that was pregnant). I spoke to my vet (a friend of more than 25 years) and he asked his "right-hand man" Michael if he knew anyone that would be interested in taking the horse.

A lady came forward, and I arranged with her that she could have said horse for free, but she was not permitted to sell said horse. (Agreement was all verbal). Sadly, things didn't work very well, and this lady said she couldn't keep the horse.

This lady then told me that Michael knew someone that would take the horse, and put it out on a field with other horses for the "rest of its days". I accepted this, (again with the same understanding that the horse would not be sold).

This happened approx. 1 year ago now.

Last Friday, I found someone that I know well (and trust) who would be interested in the horse for her riding school.

So, I contacted Michael, and asked him what the situation was with my horse. He told me that the lady (the new one) still had her, but that if everything went well, she would get her back up again, and then sell her. I was not happy about this, as I had said the horse was not to be sold. So I asked Michael to give me the phone number of the lady that has her, so that I can discuss it with her.

Although he promised to send me the detail, I got nothing, so I sent a reminder. Nothing. another reminder. nothing. a third reminder. nothing.

Yesterday I call Michael, and he basically told me that he was Censored off with me, and would not help. I asked for the lady's phone number, and he refuses to give it. He CLAIMS that he will ask the lady to call me, but I am not convinced.

So... I don't know where my horse is. I don't have any contact details, so I cannot call the person.

Now comes the difficult bit... I could easily go to a lawyer and get them to send Michael a letter obliging him to give me the contact details, BUT Michael is the right-hand-man of my vet that I have known as a good friend for a LONG time, and I do all the IT maintenance for my Vet, so I don't want to put him in an awkward position.

What should I do???!!!???

Sorry... rant over!! Sometimes it helps to write things down and get other people's opinions.

Post #553790 Wed Apr 11 2018 4:00pm
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james5599



Member Since: 14 Jun 2009
Location: london
Posts: 294

United Kingdom 

Michael has probably grafted you over in some way by the sounds of it.

But let me get it straight - you gave a horse away a year ago - and now want to have a say so as to what happens with the horse ? Surely you gave up this right when you parted ways with said horse?

Wipe your mouth and move on. Itโ€™s not worth the aggro.

Remember next time to get a contract in place. 2017 Svr and 2018 Svr ๐Ÿ˜‚

Post #553793 Wed Apr 11 2018 4:57pm
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Cobstar



Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 

I've been around horses and horse people a long time and own a couple of mares. I've learnt from the bad experiences of others that it's always wise to document agreements with other horse people - even if they are friends or relatives. But I guess you know that too.

I'm sure the thing you want most is to know where your mare is and that she is being well looked after.

With hindsight you would have had separate written loan agreements in place with each lady that made clear the mare remained your property. I'm assuming the legal process is similar to the UK. You did have a clear verbal agreement with the first lady. You also asked her to pass on the same condition to the second lady that Michael knew. You don't know that this instruction was passed on by either the first lady or Michael.

If you don't want to press Michael further at the moment can you get in contact with the first lady and see if she still has contact with the second lady? Do you know where your mare was moved to with the second lady?

It may be that the second lady has already sold or moved on your mare - but again you've probably already got that in your list of possible outcomes.

Was your mare freeze-marked, branded and/or microchipped? This might help trace her.

Did your mare have a passport? Did you keep that or pass it on to the first lady? If the mare has a passport and you no longer hold it contact the Passport Issuing Office to see whether anyone has updated the details.

Can you check whether your vet, or any other local vets, have visited/treated your mare since you last saw her?

If you were in the UK I would ask if you are a BHS Gold Member. If so ring up their legal helpline - they can give general advice that might help you.

I hope you track your mare down.

Post #553794 Wed Apr 11 2018 5:06pm
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sally



Member Since: 01 Sep 2014
Location: out and about
Posts: 363

United Kingdom 

Sorry you are going through this.

I think without a loan agreement you wint get much success.
Who had the passport?
If the passport went with the horse there is little you can do.
If you are IT, can you sneakily search the horses name/ previous ladies Vet account and see if you can get any details? Or ask your vet friend to check?
Maybe the horses name will come up with the new โ€˜ownerโ€™

Would sending her to a riding school be suitable? If she is nappie that probably wont be ideal and if she was 100% i would never send my worst enemy to a riding school ( just personal opinion, I would hate my horse to go round and round in circles getting pulled about)

Good luck, i hope she is being looked after ok 2012 Evoque
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Post #553809 Wed Apr 11 2018 7:28pm
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drdelrrs



Member Since: 02 Nov 2010
Location: UK
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If your relationship with your vet is as good as you say the talk over your concerns for the animal's welfare with him/her. Simply state that you want to know where your horse is.

Once you've located it its up to you what you then do about it and that does not need to involve the vet.

Post #553812 Wed Apr 11 2018 7:55pm
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nebc100



Member Since: 27 Aug 2017
Location: Altlinster
Posts: 100

Luxembourg 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE Java Black

Thanks for the comments!!

I agree with most of what you have all said!!

I will admit that if I hadn't found out that the person might sell my horse, I wouldn't be so upset. When I "gave" the horse away, I was under the impression that she would simply have a good life till the end of her days. If I had wanted to sell her, I would have done it myself.

Regarding ownership... I spoke to a friend who is a lawyer, and since there has been no sales contract signed, it comes down to what is on her papers. I have checked with the studbook, and I am registered as her breeder (she was born at my house), and there have been no changes of ownership recorded. So... LEGALLY, I can prove that she belongs to me.

I have asked my vet to contact me when he is back from his holidays and I am going to talk to him in confidence because I don't actually want to cause trouble. I will see what he says.

The stupid thing is I wouldn't have been upset if I hadn't found out that my horse might be sold!!

As far as riding schools are concerned, I agree fully, but my daughter's riding teacher is honestly one of the best people that I could think of. She really takes care of her horses, and makes the lessons really fun not only for the kids, but also for the horses.
My daughter often goes there just to help out, and ends up riding horses just so that they don't have to stay in their boxes when their neighbours have gone out for a ride. They have GREAT fun!!

I will keep my fingers crossed that Michael does the "right" thing, and that I find where my horse is so that I can try and find a solution with the lady that currently has her.

Please keep your fingers crossed for me!!

Nick

Post #553883 Thu Apr 12 2018 12:00pm
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Cobstar



Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 

Fingers crossed Nick.

Good news that the Breed Records are in your make as breeder and owner.

What breed is your mare? And what is her breeding?

My 28 year old horse of a lifetime came from a very good riding school. I first met her when she was six. Leased her that winter and bought her the following spring.

I'd loved to have bred her and be at the start of her working life knowing what I do now.

Post #553890 Thu Apr 12 2018 12:56pm
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nebc100



Member Since: 27 Aug 2017
Location: Altlinster
Posts: 100

Luxembourg 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE Java Black

Well... have finally sorted this all out, but sadly the outcome is not what I had hoped or expected.

It explains the reaction of Michael, but doesn't excuse it.

Last night I had a long talk with my vet, and he knew more because Michael had contacted him during his holidays and asked him to get in touch AS SOON AS HE IS BACK. So my vet dropped by on his way home from his holidays (still with luggage, wife, kids etc in the car!!)

Michael had not done anything "wrong", and had placed the horse with a lady in his village (as he claimed that he had).

When I contacted Michael and asked about my horse, he contacted the lady only to be told that the horse had died at the end of February. She had suddenly stopped eating, and the lady had called the vet (3 times), but sadly they couldn't do anything. I don't know which vet it was, but Michael did some "snooping" in his village, and has had it confirmed that the vet WAS called, and that things went downhill very quickly.

So ... sadly, I now know the details. Not what I wanted, but at the same time at least I know that she was not sold on to someone else.

Now I have to concentrate on my other horses (2 friesians!!).

Post #554381 Tue Apr 17 2018 9:44am
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RallyXS



Member Since: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 82

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Sorry, but I smell BS here. Why didn't Michael just tell you that when you contacted him, and why was he **** off with you (not sure what the word was). I would guess that Michael has sold it when the first lady gave it up, and doesn't want to get in trouble. Surely there would be a record with a vet which you can get details of to be sure? And why wouldn't the lady that Michael knew and arranged to have the horse (2nd lady) contact Michael when horse was ill. 2012 RRS SDV6
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Post #554431 Tue Apr 17 2018 6:54pm
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james5599



Member Since: 14 Jun 2009
Location: london
Posts: 294

United Kingdom 

james5599 wrote:
Michael has probably grafted you over in some way by the sounds of it.
.



I refer back to my earlier message. I got that sense from the very beginning. 2017 Svr and 2018 Svr ๐Ÿ˜‚

Post #554434 Tue Apr 17 2018 7:13pm
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nebc100



Member Since: 27 Aug 2017
Location: Altlinster
Posts: 100

Luxembourg 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE Java Black

I would agree with you if it were not my vet that had told me what had happened. I have known him for 25 years, and he is a good friend. He wouldn't lie to me.

Michael apparently didn't know what had happened until I called and asked for information. He then called the lady and it was only then that he learned what had happened.

I agree with you that he should have then told me the truth, but apparently he didn't want to be the one to tell me because it was his idea to send the horse there.

My vet has checked, and a vet WAS called for my horse 3 times. He (my vet) thinks that she must have had a tumour that caused her to go downhill so quickly. This would also explain her sudden change in character (over the last 18 months she had become very aggressive. We had put it down to her being jealous that my friesian mare was pregnant).

Anyway, it is sad news, but I DO know that she was NOT sold.

Post #554436 Tue Apr 17 2018 7:57pm
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