Hi Guys,

So as I've said in another post, SVR on 22" Wheels in London is a firm experience.

But I was wondering when you go over drain covers that are sunken or mini ditches and the like and the suspension gives a reasonable thud, is that damaging the suspension over the longer term, or is it designed to handle it.

Does that also slowly damage the ARB bushes and other stuff?

Basically anyone who knows what it is doing, I guess if the suspension is designed to drop off a rock on offroading the odd pothole/bump/etc won't hurt it but I don't know.

Also does the SVR being stiffer in the suspension change anything?

Thanks in advance for the advice!! Non JLR Vehicle

No one goes over road defects in their RRS ?  Non JLR Vehicle

Its a proper off-road vehicle designed to take far worse imperfections than pot holes and slightly sunken manhole covers.......... even on 22” wheels. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Tim what's the rough mileage life of the suspension parts?

Yeah but a severe enough pothole can buckle a 22 inch wheel, I've seen it !! Non JLR Vehicle

A wheel is an item that the tyre is fitted to.

The sidewall of a tyre is the suspension that cushions the road from the wheel.

When the road and wheel come together, that solidness is which causes the thumps, bumps and ultimately the damage.

Off road tyres have a relatively large sidewall, aiding both traction and the ability of the suspension to do what it was designed for.

22" rims with the appropiate tyres are not condusive to bumps and potholes, merely cosmetic and for the 'Chelsea' brigade.

Others may disagree, but a true off road plugger will have 18, 19 or at most 20 inch wheels.

Vehicles woth 22" wheels and low profile tyres will in the end suffer greater bush and associated failures due to the transmission of forces direct to the chassis, as well as increased levels of sidewall damage, leading to tyre malfunction.

I hear lots of 22" wheels needing repairs, very little of 21" and none of 20".

I rest my case, and have tin hat ready.

Dave

I will be the first to admit I like 22" wheels on Range Rovers from an asthetic point of view and have had them on almost all of my LR cars - I made my friend get a car witih 21" wheels as I knew he wouldn't handle the firm ride as well as me.

They fill the arches of the L494 and L405 models quite nicely, 21" still do I guess - 20" and lower don't in my view fill them as well.

However from a form and function point of view I can concede that the tiny sidewall on bigger tyres can't be doing any good for suspension.

I've had a read on the internet and see that the tyre forms part of the suspension and is the first point of impact.

I am getting a set of 21" wheels for my SVR to try out over winter as they are M+S stamped wheels apparently so will be better for the winter we get in London.

However, I was just wondering really if the odd small to medium pothole would actually damage the suspension components of a Land Rover rather than say a freakishly large one cracking an alloy wheel.

From new the suspension components "should" probably be designed for a certain mileage lifespan and was wondeering what that was.

I get that the tyre, wheel and alignment might be the first things to bear the brunt but was wondering for a bit more insight really as I don't know that much about the longer term maintenance of suspension on these cars.

Thanks
DM Non JLR Vehicle

I agree with you, astheticaly 22s look the bees knees, and if they did damage, why are they an option.

I have no idea to the latter, and feel sure during the guarantee period and possibly the same again, any 'damage' would not manifest itself.

But the facts are a heavy vehicle and low profile tyres do not work. A Rolls or Bently at the same weight has twice the sidewall height to help smooth the ride.

My 2010 RRS came on 20" wheels and tyres, but looked silly in the wheel arch. I fitted 21" and 275/40 tyres. The ride is harder, but not harsh.

Because of the possible wheel articulation, these vehicles need a sizeable arch within which to move.

In truth I daresay LR could sell as many RRs with absolutely no 'off road' capabilites or gadgets, even with just rear wheel drive and massive wheels and low profile tyres, for those who just want the looks, but as it is, the cosmetic and fundamental issues have to fit in with the ultimate vehicle capability, which is second to none.

To try to answer your 2 main questions, and this is only my view based on many years involved in motorsport and transport in general, wishbones and wheel bearings which are easily replaced will bear the brunt of any damage that gets past the obvious wheel cracking issue, and those on RRs are of sufficient design to withstand a lot of punishment.

Just because these vehicles can do amazing things off road, it does not translate to be able to withstand forces that are anything other than the equivelent of taking a sledge hammer to parts that were never intended to suffer direct impact.

Alloy wheels have been used on trucks for many years without issues, but they are a lot thicker than the steel ones they replace. Car alloy wheels are not as substantial, yes they are strong, but are so stressed that when their limits are reached, the result is damage.

No one would use a pre stressed concrete beam after it had suffered damage, why anyone would use a repaired alloy wheel escapes me. The mere fact of appling a weld to anything induces water/vapour which reduces the strength of the surrounding material.

In motorsport, off shore boat racing or aviation to name but three, damaged/broken parts are discarded, nothing which has failed is repaired or used again.

If a size wheel is known for failing, isn't that sufficient to think that any forces that pass up to the next component could be inflicting damge to areas that are not instantly visable.

If the bumps and thumps are enough to make you think, 'is this right' possibly your sensible head might say possibly not, but there again isn't there a little gremlin in all of us!

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that insight that was really helpful and interesting to read, I admit I don't know as much about suspension as I would like to.

I do know the SVR is tightened a bit too tight for Central London but that's a different matter. Might email a product developer and tell them to scrap the Eco mode on the SVR (not sure if anyone's ever used it) and make a City mode or Super Comfort mode or something to loosen the SVR suspension to "normal" RRS comfort mode settings for when you want more comfort - not sure anyone will listen though.

This below wheel here is what I'm currently running, on 285/40/22 Continental Tyres, do wheels designed like that damage more or less easier than say wheels with more spokes. With the SVR tightened suspension there's a lot more thudding around on even small defects in the road but I'm just wondering if that actually translates to damage?





Thanks!
DM Non JLR Vehicle

Yes, potholes will increase the wear rate of bushes. The speed you hit them at will determine also the risk to tyre/wheel/suspension. Whilst Tim is correct about the vehicle being designed to work off road, speeds are generally much lower off road. Speed is the issue as the energy being put through the sidewall, wheel and suspension increases with the square of the speed of the impact. To be honest, bushes are to be considered as consumable items on big Land Rovers.

Never understood the whole "big rims with rubber band tyres fill the arches better" argument. It's quite simply wrong. Go for deeper sidewalls to fill the arches. Also gives better bump absorption and wheel rim protection

Amused by the need for "M&S marked wheels [tyres?]" in London. Get lots of mud and snow down there, do you? Fit winter tyres (these also show M&S on the sidewall but it's a meaningless mark anyway so ignore it). Winter road tyres will make your SVR much safer all winter round (not just on the two days a year when there's a heavy frost/light snow falll). 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Any wheel will be transmitting the same force back to the mounting/centre.

More material over a given area will not reduce that 'shock', merely spread it better.

Should that wheel suffer damage to a spoke or an area of the rim near a spoke, then that would mean the wheel is unsuitable for the vehicle/conditions. Damage to the rim elswhere would be a consequence of the tyre sidewall being compressed to its limit and effectively becoming solid.

Coming back to repairs, if a boat mast is damaged during a race, and a replacement is not available for days, a repair is done using a splint or patch, so any weld is concentrated on material further away from the original break, which has not suffered.

This can't be done to a wheel without taking it out of balance.

Your wheel, very nice, obviously passed many tests, but few spokes and none of them straight, time will tell.

I have a picture somewhere of an 11.75" wide truck alloy wheel that was fitted with a low profile tyre. It didn't survive hitting something in the road. The wheel shattered and the truck jacknifed and was written off. If I had been sat on the right hand side, I may not have been writing this, the fact that it was left hand drive means I am.

Dave

Found it.

DangerMouseUK wrote:

Tim what's the rough mileage life of the suspension parts?

Yeah but a severe enough pothole can buckle a 22 inch wheel, I've seen it !!

I’ve never kept any of my RRS’s more than 4 years/ 35000 miles, live on a farm lane and I off-roaded them all and the only one that needed any suspension replacement was the L320 TDv8 which wore out the front bushes in 18 months otherwise no issues.
I gave seen buckled 22” wheels but usually they have not been OEM, often Overfinch /Overfinch replicas and Kahn wheels shod with stupidly low profile tyres. Also the buckled ones i’ve Seen have been on L320’s not designed to take bigger than 20” wheels.

Have you thought about changing to 21” SVR wheels with higher side walls? I have these unused 21” SVR wheel stand unused tyres in the for sale section

Click image to enlarge

 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Hi Guys,

Just being a bit careful as we had a few weeks of snow in London last year and summer tyres were useless, was figuring M+S tyres might be a bit better, also serves a second purporse of trying out 21" wheels on the car to try the larger sidewall and see what it does for the handling on the SVR!

Take the point of getting more rubber in there ! Also interesting photo of the rim, that was really bad damage !!

Tim - I've got a set of 21s waiting for me at a dealers but thank you for the kind offer!

So would you say that small to medium potholes in London on 22s with 40 sidewalls probably isn't doing much damage? Non JLR Vehicle

Depends how fast you hit them........... whenever i’m Central London the traffic seems to move at less than walking pace so shouldn’t be a problem! 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Just to add on here...

I changed after 5 Years on 21s (250.000 km)on my L494‘s first time to 22’s and it’s worlds between them.
The 22’s much stiffer, feels like full rubber without air in it compared to 21’s.

I am really tempted to swap back to 21’s, the feel isn’t perfect for me and the car looses a lot of it’s Range Rover feeling on the run...

Please keep us posted how are 21‘s on your SVR...👍 2012 RRS HSE SDV6, BOURNVILLE 12/12-10/14
2015 RRS DYNAMIC HYBRID, CAUSEWAY GREY 1/15-7/18
2018 RRS DYNAMIC P400e, BRITISH RACING GREEN 8/18-8/19
2019 RRS DYNAMIC P525, SILICON SILVER 8/19-

Tim in Scotland wrote:

Depends how fast you hit them........... whenever i’m Central London the traffic seems to move at less than walking pace so shouldn’t be a problem!