https://newsletter.motoreasy.com/magazine/...t-Reliable

not great reading for Land Rover

I'm not sure I understand the repair cost/frequency of failure chart though. Merc C220 estate Sport AMG
Merc C220 estate Sport AMG 125 year edition
Alfa GT
Rover 76 V6

It doesn’t seem to worry JLR Management one iota that they are bottom of the list, they don’t seem do anything about it and shrug it off. This is the second or 3rd year that they have been in the bottom two on the list - I notice Tesla ], who were one above JLR last year aren’t even on the list this year. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Well if you think about it, JLR Management are doing a great job. Pushing up prices whilst reducing quality. Unfortunately customers are no longer falling for it.

LR products are generally quite complicated and big 4x4 often seem to be low in the reliability stakes. I wonder if people treat them harder thinking they're tough 4x4. That and the cost of repairs means people shy away from doing preventative stuff. The result is a double whammy.

Of course, LR's poor dealerships don't help. Indeed, they are part of the problem by causing as many issues as they sort. They also often take several goes at fixing stuff because they either don't, or can't, fix them first time. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Or is it a case that parts for them are so madly overpriced if you buy from your friendly local deslership’s accessory department that people don’t properly maintain them after the warranty runs out. A lot of these surveys are for cars older than 3 years old. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

RRSTDV8 wrote:

LR products are generally quite complicated and big 4x4 often seem to be low in the reliability stakes. I wonder if people treat them harder thinking they're tough 4x4. That and the cost of repairs means people shy away from doing preventative stuff. The result is a double whammy.

Of course, LR's poor dealerships don't help. Indeed, they are part of the problem by causing as many issues as they sort. They also often take several goes at fixing stuff because they either don't, or can't, fix them first time.

I’ve got a new, different and slightly controversial theory.

Having spent the last 8 years and around 10,000 posts, mostly between the Freel2, Disco 3 & 4, Full Fat and Landyzone Fora (and nearly the same again across BMW MINI, Focus RS and Volvo fora, going back to 2004), I’d say that, given the same fault, a Land Rover owner will complain much longer and more vociferously than the owner of any marque of car, as if it’s all part of “the ownership experience” Whether it’s people complaining bitterly that LR should provide a new engine for their 250,000 mile & 8 year old Disco (yes, really!), or going on at very great length about crank shaft failures, having had no direct experience of it themselves and only having “read about it on the internet”

Sure, just like every other manufacturer, LR have had their problems. But to make an absolute mountain out of (an average size) mole hill, you need a Land Rover owner and a keyboard!  A Fatty owner, just dropping by

ignorance is bliss

Red Merle, you have a point. I still think the poor dealerships give the brand a significant part of their "unreliable" reputation. The dealerships don't fix things properly often meaning multiple trips to sort an issue. The result is owners saying "my LR is always having to go to the garage". That equates to "it's always going wrong" when often it's one issue that's ongoing.

My old TDV8 was always having to go in for stuff when it was looked after by a main dealer. I got so pee'd off with it that I went to a local independent. From 47k - 100k miles, it had no end of issues. From 100k - 178k miles it had a couple of wear and tear things, otherwise it was just serviced. The switch from dealer to indie happened around 100k miles.

Examples of dealership caused issues - incorrect battery fitted (it had a JLR battery alright but it was a small one). Result is the battery died and needed replacing. Shortly afterwards, no surprise, the alternator died. Went in for turbos, was given back to me almost undriveable because they'd damaged the steering rack when lifting the body. Then they used my warranty to pay for the new rack and lower column. Other stuff wasn't put back together correctly when the body was refitted meaning a couple of extra visits to get sorted. New starter motor fitted. Pointed out that it needs a breather as the existing one didn't have one (the manual says fit if one not present). Checked afterwards (I didn't trust them by this stage) and the breather had been coiled up below the starter motor so it was acting as a straw, not a breather. Result - back in to get it fitted correctly.

That's one customer at one dealership over a couple of years. If that's typical - and we hear of similar multiple trips to fix things quite regularly - then that's not going to help LR's reputation, is it? As someone who takes an interest in my vehicle, I understand what's happened and where the fault lies. A non-enthusiast customer will just think "cor, the vehicle's rubbish". Look at muddywheels's history with LR dealerships - he lost trust in all of his local ones. Not surprising when one of them even dropped his RRS off the ramp! One customer, multiple dealership issues again.

Suffice to say that my SDV6, although it came with an LR history, is looked after by my indie. Sure, the SDV6 needs some new lower arm bushes but at 80k miles that's normal wear and tear. A small weep on the transfer box points to the front drive flange oil seal but again, that's not unreasonable in my mind at that mileage. These aren't "LR make rubbish cars" issues. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

All fair comment, although a competent service department can make the world of difference to any car. I used to run Citroen XM’s for work and had a very competent independent looking after them and they were all reliable (despite their stellar reputation for breaking down!) and I never had any workshop return trips. My subsequent C5 estate was fully main dealer serviced and it was the most unreliable car I’ve ever owned.

I’ve had variable LR dealer experiences, but I’ve had worse elsewhere. The worst howlers of all were with the Volvo dealer in Exeter! What Land Rover do appear to have suffered from is a relatively rapid increase in the number of cars sold, followed by a substantial lag in the size of the dealership network and service facilities built to support them. A Fatty owner, just dropping by

Last edited by Red Merle on Sun May 05 2019 1:03pm. Edited 1 time in total

It’s way over due that Land Rover vehicles should come with a 5 year manufacturers warranty as standard.

Jim

I’d like to see that too, although I’d prefer it if it retained their ability to pay out, rather than Kia’s policy of 7 years’ of small print exclusions

It’s worth bearing in mind though that none of the volume manufacturers from Germany, such as BMW or Mercedes, offer a longer warranty than LR’s current one and some, like VW/Audi, fall well short of LR’s offering. These are manufacturers that are rarely criticised for the length of their warranties  A Fatty owner, just dropping by

RRSTDV8 wrote:

Red Merle, you have a point. I still think the poor dealerships give the brand a significant part of their "unreliable" reputation. The dealerships don't fix things properly often meaning multiple trips to sort an issue. The result is owners saying "my LR is always having to go to the garage". That equates to "it's always going wrong" when often it's one issue that's ongoing.

My old TDV8 was always having to go in for stuff when it was looked after by a main dealer. I got so pee'd off with it that I went to a local independent. From 47k - 100k miles, it had no end of issues. From 100k - 178k miles it had a couple of wear and tear things, otherwise it was just serviced. The switch from dealer to indie happened around 100k miles.

Examples of dealership caused issues - incorrect battery fitted (it had a JLR battery alright but it was a small one). Result is the battery died and needed replacing. Shortly afterwards, no surprise, the alternator died. Went in for turbos, was given back to me almost undriveable because they'd damaged the steering rack when lifting the body. Then they used my warranty to pay for the new rack and lower column. Other stuff wasn't put back together correctly when the body was refitted meaning a couple of extra visits to get sorted. New starter motor fitted. Pointed out that it needs a breather as the existing one didn't have one (the manual says fit if one not present). Checked afterwards (I didn't trust them by this stage) and the breather had been coiled up below the starter motor so it was acting as a straw, not a breather. Result - back in to get it fitted correctly.

That's one customer at one dealership over a couple of years. If that's typical - and we hear of similar multiple trips to fix things quite regularly - then that's not going to help LR's reputation, is it? As someone who takes an interest in my vehicle, I understand what's happened and where the fault lies. A non-enthusiast customer will just think "cor, the vehicle's rubbish". Look at muddywheels's history with LR dealerships - he lost trust in all of his local ones. Not surprising when one of them even dropped his RRS off the ramp! One customer, multiple dealership issues again.

Suffice to say that my SDV6, although it came with an LR history, is looked after by my indie. Sure, the SDV6 needs some new lower arm bushes but at 80k miles that's normal wear and tear. A small weep on the transfer box points to the front drive flange oil seal but again, that's not unreasonable in my mind at that mileage. These aren't "LR make rubbish cars" issues.

Sounds like you had RRS Bingo

It isn’t just JLR, my brother’s A4 All Road TSI went into the local dealership for a recall job on the cooling system 10 days ago. This is a 7 year old car with less than 40k miles on it, serviced by the same dealer it was purchased from new. He got it home and the next morning his neighbour told him there was a large “wet” patch on his drive........ brother phone’s dealership explains no coolant remains in the header tank after a 25 miles drive and a night on the drive. He was told to drive it “carefully” back to the dealers which he refused seeing as there was no coolant in it.......... dealer sent out a technician in a van, when he arrives he gets under the car and finds a hose was not reconnected after the recall service....... and the tech had no tools or refill coolant with him so the car had to be trailered back 25 miles to the dealer! My brother wanted to go with the car but that was declined and he was told it would be returned that evening by a driver which it was but with a dash lit up like a Christmas tree lit with warning lights when the delivery driver wanted to start it to get it off the trailer! An incompetent mechanic is costing the dealership plenty and about to loose them a long standing customer. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Or my last Ford. A brand new Ficus RS at £30,000, for a Focus At less than 6 months old I found that the roof mounting points for the roof bars were completely filled with rigid body joint sealant. Ford refused to pay for the rectification “as no one had complained about it before” so Ford wouldn't accept it was a problem!

I eventually gave up and sold the completely unused roof bars only recently, after having parted with the car earlier.

Rubbish service happens with many makes, but my overall experience of Land Rover actually ain’t that bad

Come to think of it, Ford and Citroen are the only two brands where the experience of customer support was so bad that I’d never give them another chance! A Fatty owner, just dropping by