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foxtrotzulu



Member Since: 04 Sep 2015
Location: West Berkshire
Posts: 149

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Sport 3.0 TDV6 HSE Buckingham Blue
Old vs new - off road capability?

I have a 2010 RRS fitted with Grabber AT3s. My friend has a 2017 RRS with factory fit tyres. Last week we were both driving up a slippery field. He was following in the same muddy/clay ruts as me. I set the special programme to mud and ruts and low range. I’m not sure what he did. A couple of times I had to reverse a foot or two before continuing. Otherwise, I ground my way slowly up the slope. I was pretty gentle on the throttle but even so there was a lot of wheel slippage/spin. To my surprise he had far less trouble with the slope than I did and I’m wondering why.
1. I had three young women as passengers Very Happy He just had one other bloke with him so the passenger weight was less.
2. Did I somehow help to cut through the mud to a firmer base beneath? Seems unlikely.
3. Are the electronics on the new RRS massively superior to the older one?
4. Is the lighter weight of the new RRS the cause?

I appreciate that driver skill could be an issue, but I’m pretty sure I was doing more or less the right thing and the other chap has less off road experience/ability than me.

Any thought? I’m guessing it’s down to total weight, but I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Post #543801 Thu Dec 21 2017 9:38am
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syl



Member Since: 10 Mar 2016
Location: Somerset
Posts: 231

United Kingdom 

Driver skill? I'd just set ATPC and leave the car to it. RRS MY17 SDV6 AB
Evoque MY17 TD4 AB

Post #543802 Thu Dec 21 2017 10:08am
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RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 5867

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8 HSE Stornoway Grey

If the 2017 was a Dynamic or had the "on road/off road" pack added, it would have had a locking rear diff where yours doesn't. That will help in such situations. The latest version of Terrain Response (TR2) will probably be better than the original version too. If the 2017 had ATPC and he used it, then that would also make a huge difference. ATPC is intended for just such situations where inexperienced drivers are off road. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #543803 Thu Dec 21 2017 10:15am
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foxtrotzulu



Member Since: 04 Sep 2015
Location: West Berkshire
Posts: 149

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Sport 3.0 TDV6 HSE Buckingham Blue

I don't think the other vehicle had the Dynamic/off-road Pack. Nor do I think it was driver skill. I'm amazing Very Happy Very Happy .

My guess is that it was 5% down to sharper electronics and 95% down to the extra 450kg I was carrying.

Post #543811 Thu Dec 21 2017 1:38pm
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RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 5867

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8 HSE Stornoway Grey

The new RRS isn't actually 450kg lighter than the original. That was one of those marketing facts put out at the launch. The 450kg basically only applied if you compared the most extreme versions of old and new. Most new ones are within a couple of passengers of the old one in weight terms.

The new RRS has better ground clearance and doubtless a better traction control system too.

You said that you were going slowly up the track - this might have been the difference. In mud, momentum is important and just a tiny bit more or less speed can make a huge difference. Sometimes just being in a different gear can make the difference. I've driven up something in low second that someone in low first failed to climb. They got up easily when trying in second. They were on Duratrac, me on AT3. In marginal conditions, small things can make a big difference.

Of course, he might just be a better driver than you... Whistle Rolling with laughter 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #543820 Thu Dec 21 2017 4:58pm
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Eaters



Member Since: 11 Apr 2016
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 869

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8 HSE Zermatt Silver

I believe I also read on here somewhere recently that going too easy on poor terrain isn’t necessarily the best option as the full benefit is not realised. It’s only when you give it a gentle bit of welly that the cars toys really come into play.

Sorry this is only hearsay as I do not have personal experience of serious off-roading ...yet😄 Robin
2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8
Awaiting rebuild: NGTF
Gone:
Jaguar S-Type V8 4.2 Sport
MGZTT 190 2.5

Post #543822 Thu Dec 21 2017 5:04pm
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RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 5867

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8 HSE Stornoway Grey

It's true that some wheel spin is required for traction control to work. You also need to give the systems a chance to get involved. Most people get a bit of wheel spin and immediately back off the throttle. What you should do is hold the throttle at the point where spin just starts. The systems will then work out what is happening and apply the relevant brakes accordingly. You might be sat there for a few seconds with the wheels slowly turning but it will usually sort it out and you get traction back. Backing off defeats the systems, as does giving it big beans.

Turning off DSC can be beneficial in some limited situations if you're struggling as it tends to cut the throttle if it detects lateral movement.

Sadly most people never find out how these things work and never play around to see what does what. You don't need to go on a LRE day (although they are excellent) - a quiet play around on the gentler bits of a pay and play site will be beneficial. Just thinking "it's a 4x4 so it'll be ok" or "give it some beans to get through" usually results in no progress and red faces. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #543824 Thu Dec 21 2017 6:34pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 30 May 2005
Location: Driving along in my automobile
Posts: 16510

2013 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Stornoway Grey

In the original Freelander1 version of TC and HDC a wheel had yo make 5 full rotations before the sensors sorted out their sums and applied the brakes to the slipping wheels - with RRS’s (both models) I believe it is down to 2 wheel rotations. An RRS HSE without Dynamic or Off/On Road Pack is similar to a Discovery Sport and an Evoque. As is pointed out earlier there isn’t as much weight difference as 450kgs - LR compared an L320 Autobiograpghy with all option boxes ricked to an L494 SE with no optional extras............ IIRC like with like comparison gives around 150-200kgs weight advantage to the L494. 2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - a test car before Seeing if I could go to totally Petrol/Diesel free motoring
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Post #543826 Thu Dec 21 2017 7:32pm
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Cymruambyth



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: North Wales
Posts: 1201

Wales 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged HST Zermatt Silver

RRSTDV8 wrote:
The new RRS isn't actually 450kg lighter than the original.


He may have been referring to the chubby birds he was carrying Rolling with laughter Steve.


2006 Zermatt Silver, Range Rover Sport HST 4.2 Supercharged on 22" Stormer Alloys.

Post #543831 Thu Dec 21 2017 10:36pm
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Buckster



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1266

England 2013 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Orkney Grey

RRSTDV8 wrote:


You said that you were going slowly up the track - this might have been the difference. In mud, momentum is important and just a tiny bit more or less speed can make a huge difference. Sometimes just being in a different gear can make the difference. I've driven up something in low second that someone in low first failed to climb. They got up easily when trying in second. They were on Duratrac, me on AT3. In marginal conditions, small things can make a big difference.


100% agree with this statement because it was me! RRSTDV8 made it look easy and I failed the climb, tried again in second or 3rd and it made it look easy with minimal effort on the throttle, there are some situations in muddy stuff where you have to prod the throttle a little more to get the electronics and traction control working at its best in conjunction with the tyre grip you have available Thumbs Up 2003 BMW M5 - 5 Litres of V8 Optimax Slurping Goodness in Carbon Black

2013 SDV6 HSE Black Edition- Orkney Grey with Ebony & Ivory. LR Facelift RAI, Genuine G4 Expedition Rack, 4x Warn SBD-160 Spotlights, Warn 9.5XPS Winch, Mantec Underbody Protection, LR Light Guards, 19"s on Goodyear Duratracs, ARB fridge, TuffTrek awning 😎

Post #543838 Thu Dec 21 2017 11:43pm
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RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 5867

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8 HSE Stornoway Grey

In fairness, Chris, I did it in second low and then told you I used first low at which point you failed... Whistle You got up easily when you used second the same as me. Thumbs Up I seem to remember you using a short word to describe me! Rolling with laughter

A good trip, that one. Same again next year? 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #543840 Fri Dec 22 2017 12:33am
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foxtrotzulu



Member Since: 04 Sep 2015
Location: West Berkshire
Posts: 149

United Kingdom 2010 Range Rover Sport 3.0 TDV6 HSE Buckingham Blue

OK, thanks for the replies. I certainly started off up the slope at a reasonable speed but that speed gradually disappeared. Remember, this was a 300m slope, so taking a run up wasn’t really an option. I could have allowed more wheel spin. I’ll try it next time. Forgot to say, there was one other vehicle in front of me. An older long wheelbase defender. Probably without any bells and whistles at all. He had aggressive tyres and no passengers. He did know the slope well and made it look easy.

Suspect the answer lies in a combination of all the factors mentioned previously.

Post #543853 Fri Dec 22 2017 8:38am
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Buckster



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1266

England 2013 Range Rover Sport SDV6 HSE Orkney Grey

RRSTDV8 wrote:
In fairness, Chris, I did it in second low and then told you I used first low at which point you failed... Whistle You got up easily when you used second the same as me. Thumbs Up I seem to remember you using a short word to describe me! Rolling with laughter

A good trip, that one. Same again next year?


Yes definitely going next year, its Land Rovers 70th. Our plan is to do vibraction roadbook 5 from Atlantic to Med coast then finish up with the party Thumbs Up 2003 BMW M5 - 5 Litres of V8 Optimax Slurping Goodness in Carbon Black

2013 SDV6 HSE Black Edition- Orkney Grey with Ebony & Ivory. LR Facelift RAI, Genuine G4 Expedition Rack, 4x Warn SBD-160 Spotlights, Warn 9.5XPS Winch, Mantec Underbody Protection, LR Light Guards, 19"s on Goodyear Duratracs, ARB fridge, TuffTrek awning 😎

Post #543859 Fri Dec 22 2017 9:47am
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RRSTDV8



Member Since: 13 Aug 2011
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 5867

United Kingdom 2008 Range Rover Sport TDV8 HSE Stornoway Grey

Wow, that road book trip looks awesome! 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Post #543894 Fri Dec 22 2017 9:46pm
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