Before the endless misinterpretations of the title.. let me clarify:

The owners manual states that the recovery points on the RRS (back and front) are for on road recovery only. A friend has stated that this is the same on the Toyota Prado, and in the case of a need for recovery using a snatch strap he has added new additional points onto the chassis, as apparently to use the factory ones for snatch recovery could "pull the front of the car off".

Can someone confirm if this is the case, and if so has anyone added additional stronger recovery points to their RRS, and where exactly are these added? 2008 TDV6 WHITE/EBONY

http://www.rangeroverclub.org.au/

You might try asking over on the Disco3 forums as there are more guys there who off road than here
They are at www.disco3.co.uk
Also a good alternative source of info is www.rangerovers.net on their RRS forum as there are a few folks there who also offroad their Sports. A Carbon Footprint is the mark a lump of coal makes when it's dropped on the ground.

Tata TDv8 HSE - Stornoway/ebony and straight grain walnut with towpack, Tasmods and an HST grille. Coming soon LEDs in the headlights
Staying - Epsom Green Defender 90 for playing off road

well assuming it is back in one day from the stealers on thursday for the EPB, it may have to put up with a snatch or two at Stockton this weekend.. Good point Tim to check the D3 site yet another Pommie living in Sydney

2.7 RRS TDV6, Zermatt/Ebony moooo-hide, Clear pack, Cruise, Sunroof, tow pack, RPS, Tasmod Sills, RRS Umbrella, RRSPORT rear window sticker and last but not least a "Supercheap Auto" $20 cargo net "Marvellous"

Had a recovery using the point on the rear of the car to pull me out of the mud yesterday without any problems, tho I wasn't stuck too hard.
Will have to check that out in the manual would not want the front or rear pulled off the vehicle.....

Wasn't there a video from LandRover showing the vehicles getting lifted by the points on the rear of the vehicles? Sons of dogs come eat flesh
Clan Cameron

It was a D3 hanging from a crane by it's rear recovery point ,with 3 large SUVs (an X5, a Toureg and an ML) slung from it's front recovery point all hanging vertically from a tower crane IIRC
It's on youtube here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3LIWXCuUUc&feature=related

and here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhQkHtDBmB0

On the 1st video it says the chassis can take a 6 tonne snatch recovery loading......................... so I think you should be OK to snatch one so long as you have a spring balance to indicate when you get to 6t  A Carbon Footprint is the mark a lump of coal makes when it's dropped on the ground.

Tata TDv8 HSE - Stornoway/ebony and straight grain walnut with towpack, Tasmods and an HST grille. Coming soon LEDs in the headlights
Staying - Epsom Green Defender 90 for playing off road

Last edited by Tim in Scotland on Tue May 13 2008 10:15am. Edited 2 times in total

ah yes remember the video, will most probably risk a snatch recovery if needs must this weekend

2nd Rower, posed the question here http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post298199.html#298199

hopefully an answer may be forthcoming. yet another Pommie living in Sydney

2.7 RRS TDV6, Zermatt/Ebony moooo-hide, Clear pack, Cruise, Sunroof, tow pack, RPS, Tasmod Sills, RRS Umbrella, RRSPORT rear window sticker and last but not least a "Supercheap Auto" $20 cargo net "Marvellous"

Let us know what they say, for completeness  

Also be careful in the translation between "English" and "Australian".

There have been some very heated arguments about recovery on a different forum which when cooled off and taking a step back showed that there is a difference in the terms used and this even varies between different areas of the UK etc. (and it also seems that Australian tow hitches are not rated in the same way as the UK)

In my area "snatch" recovery means one of the vehicles is moving and uses a combination of its weight and kinetic energy to move the stuck vehicle. To do this you need a kinetic rope or a live strop - one with elastic capability to absorb the motion and convert it to pulling energy. This requires significant strength in the recovery point as it generates forces of 2 to 3 times the load. So a 3 tonne vehicle will have forces around 9 tonnes in the rope - which easily exceeds the recovery point "boast" of 6 tonnes.

The other recovery is a straight pull, where the rope is taught between the two vehicles before the recovery starts and relies solely on the pulling power/grip of the recovering vehicle. This uses a "dead" rope or "dead" strop - with no elastic properties. This exerts much less force on the vehicles involved, but does not always result in success.

The real killer is a "snatch" recovery with a dead rope/strop. No matter how often people are warned this inevitably happens just after a pull recovery has failed, the recovering driver thinks "i will just take a little run at it". The best outcome is the strop breaks, the worst is that the vehicles and nearby people are damaged.

I would guess the recovery point is not suitable for a snatch recovery as the weight of the vehicles and the energies involved will exceed the rating easily. I would guess it can take a "pull" recovery as the forces are less. Real Off-roader - Suzuki Jimny (SN413), KAP 3" Lift, KAP Full Roll Cage, ARB Locker, On-board Air, Winch bumpers front and rear, Wrangler MT's, Recaros.

Thanks mlines - being an Englishman in Australia we often get caught out in the translation when talking to each other down here!!

Yes I am referring to what is called a 'snatch strap' here, and this is the kinetic energy type strap you are referring to.

I don't think there is any doubt in the ability of the chassis itself to take the load, and interestingly the LR video above shows them using special brackets attached to the chassis to hold the Disco 3 and the competitors..?!? Its the recovery points that are in question.

Have just found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDVKdd38gH4 and they clearly state not to use factory recovery points with their snatch straps. It's looking like I will need to find someone who can fit new points to the RRS chassis in case i ever get stuck!

Anyone know a good place in Melbourne that can do this? 2008 TDV6 WHITE/EBONY

http://www.rangeroverclub.org.au/

You could fit portable Warn winch with mounting receivers front and back.................................. might end up cheaper and more attractive than modifying the bodywork to get a free line to the chassis. When not in use you demount the winch and either carry it inside the car or leave it at home. These were developed for the G4 Freelanders and Warn are still selling them. The winch mounts on a US style square receiver that is fixed to the chassis and it can also be used for towing and mounting a peg with a shackle on it A Carbon Footprint is the mark a lump of coal makes when it's dropped on the ground.

Tata TDv8 HSE - Stornoway/ebony and straight grain walnut with towpack, Tasmods and an HST grille. Coming soon LEDs in the headlights
Staying - Epsom Green Defender 90 for playing off road

Last edited by Tim in Scotland on Wed May 14 2008 8:48am. Edited 1 time in total

Speaking to the nice chaps on the D3 site and discussing with a local 4x4 centre, they stated that it is unusual to require the full force in terms of a snatch / kinetic rope recovery unless the vehicle is stuck some serious mire http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post298584.html#298584 a bit of shoveling to clear the wheels is usually all that is required coupled with a gentle tug/pull this will typically do the job

So remember, gentle tug with the snatch , not a hard pull Further to that the 4x4 centre stated if i can fit my towpack, not the ball, just the mount, i could use the pin to anchor the rear shackle, that has something like a 9K load, or should have.

Disclaimer, try at your own peril I do not warrant my drivel on here yet another Pommie living in Sydney

2.7 RRS TDV6, Zermatt/Ebony moooo-hide, Clear pack, Cruise, Sunroof, tow pack, RPS, Tasmod Sills, RRS Umbrella, RRSPORT rear window sticker and last but not least a "Supercheap Auto" $20 cargo net "Marvellous"

Service department at MLR don't modify the chassis in any way and have stated that LR advised them that it is acceptable to do a snatch recovery using the factory points providing this is done reasonably. They described this as allowing the cable to take the load and strain and not hitting the accelerator pedal to the floor!

Obviously I am not warranting this statement in any way, just merely passing on the comments that the dealer gave to me.. Any risk in attempting a snatch recovery is at your own peril!  2008 TDV6 WHITE/EBONY

http://www.rangeroverclub.org.au/

2nd Rower wrote:

it is acceptable to do a snatch recovery using the factory points providing this is done reasonably. They described this as allowing the cable to take the load and strain and not hitting the accelerator pedal to the floor!

I emailed Land Rover last Friday and had a call back today from customer service. After a bit if a chat, and him telling me he couldn't give me any technical advice in regards to my car, we got to the crux of what was (to me) a legal statement along the lines of (These aren't his exact words):

"If you use your car in a manner not consistent with what is permitted in the owners handbook, and following a technical review any damage is deemed to have been caused by this then any warranty claim will be void."

So I asked if my interpretation was correct in that my off road car can't go off road because according to the owners handbook I can't recover it using the factory points whilst off road.... He just repeated the same legalese statement I have paraphrased above!

Not a happy camper!

Usual disclaimer applies, no liability accepted by me all, everything is at your own risk! 2008 TDV6 WHITE/EBONY

http://www.rangeroverclub.org.au/

I have a further reply from Land Rover Australia

Can I check what (if any) protocols/ethics exist for quoting emails on this forum - and fundamentally is it allowed? I believe the specific content may be informative to some (although the obvious 'at your own risk' caveats will apply), and particularly I would also like other opinions on what I have been told.

I must add that thus far I am very impressed with Land Rover Australia's Customer Service department, very professional, particularly in the follow up. A few other companies I deal with regularly could take some big lessons out of this!!  2008 TDV6 WHITE/EBONY

http://www.rangeroverclub.org.au/